2021/2022 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Yeah, I don't disagree entirely. I'd argue what value a legacy in the game of hockey is worth. I'd gladly sell any legacy for an additional $10M or so career earnings - because I'd say a more important legacy is setting up generations worth of wealth for your children and so on and so forth.

Also, how is a team in the Flames/Sens situation supposed to handle this if they're trying to win? You win Championships with top tier talent, and both Tkachuk's are physical top tier talent. I think both guys are worth top dollar on these upcoming contracts. It's why, if the Flames aren't ripping it down, I'd be happy to see Matthew get a solid 6 year deal worth up to $10M per. We'd be buying his best years at a decent dollar figure (market value showing Jones and Nurse as $9.5M makes Tkachuk worth $10M in my opinion).

Would I want to sign Tkachuk to a long term big dollar deal beyond 30/into his mid and late 30s? Probably not - but for these next 6 years? I'd happily spend the $10M on him.

I really doubt that Tkachuk would sign a 6 year deal? Why would he? He’ll want the same dollars for those 2 additional years.


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[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

I really doubt that Tkachuk would sign a 6 year deal? Why would he? He’ll want the same dollars for those 2 additional years.


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Actually forgot his age. He’d probably want a 5 year deal - so he could sign his next big deal at 29.

[blender]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Yeah, I don't disagree entirely. I'd argue what value a legacy in the game of hockey is worth. I'd gladly sell any legacy for an additional $10M or so career earnings - because I'd say a more important legacy is setting up generations worth of wealth for your children and so on and so forth.

Also, how is a team in the Flames/Sens situation supposed to handle this if they're trying to win? You win Championships with top tier talent, and both Tkachuk's are physical top tier talent. I think both guys are worth top dollar on these upcoming contracts. It's why, if the Flames aren't ripping it down, I'd be happy to see Matthew get a solid 6 year deal worth up to $10M per. We'd be buying his best years at a decent dollar figure (market value showing Jones and Nurse as $9.5M makes Tkachuk worth $10M in my opinion).

Would I want to sign Tkachuk to a long term big dollar deal beyond 30/into his mid and late 30s? Probably not - but for these next 6 years? I'd happily spend the $10M on him.

Using Nurse or Jones as a comparable doesn't work as they don't play the same position. If you were to use proper comparables it becomes clear that Matthew Tkachuk simply isn't worth 10m in this market.
Now if you are arguing that 10m would get him to sign in Calgary tomorrow you may be right, but unless he raises his game (and his linemates) he just isn't worth it.

He is a great young player with lots of potential and the Flames' most valuable asset but he has below NHL average skating and he gets into his own head and can't get out.

Treliving, for all of his faults hasn't overpaid an RFA yet, and I don't see why he would start now.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

It will be on a Flames braintrust that didn’t have the foresight to see it coming, and the mettle to make difficult asset-management decisions.

You can argue it's probably going to be the final nail in Brad Treliving's coffin. Likely going to lose Gaudreau for a late 1st at the deadline and probably something similar for Tkachuk. That's just not good enough as the last thing Flames fan wanted to see was a rerun of the Iginla and Bouwmeester trades for returns that netted the Flames essentially nothing in return. It seems this organization is stuck in a perennial rut of repeating the same mistakes over and over and over.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

You can argue it's probably going to be the final nail in Brad Treliving's coffin. Likely going to lose Gaudreau for a late 1st at the deadline and probably something similar for Tkachuk. That's just not good enough as the last thing Flames fan wanted to see was a rerun of the Iginla and Bouwmeester trades for returns that netted the Flames essentially nothing in return. It seems this organization is stuck in a perennial rut of repeating the same mistakes over and over and over.

You think the Flames will be so far out of it that dealing Gaudreau for picks at the deadline is on the table? I doubt it's Treliving calling the shots in that scenario.

[Calgary4LIfe]

If the Flames bomb this season and end up having to trade Gaudreau and/or Tkachuk, I wouldn't doubt that Treliving gets decent value at the TD. For all his warts, I find Treliving to be a fairly good 'trading GM' for the most part (Hamonic aside) - though that is assuming he is still around calling the shots if it happens.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

If the Flames bomb this season and end up having to trade Gaudreau and/or Tkachuk, I wouldn't doubt that Treliving gets decent value at the TD. For all his warts, I find Treliving to be a fairly good 'trading GM' for the most part (Hamonic aside) - though that is assuming he is still around calling the shots if it happens.

I think he's been a horrid trading GM since 2018.

Ever since Brian Burke left, Brad Treliving hasn't made a single good trade. The closest thing he has to a win is Milan Lucic, which he milked a 3rd out of - but even that vanishes into the ether as Brad spends 3rd and 4th round picks on bad hockey players yearly.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I think he's been a horrid trading GM since 2018.

Ever since Brian Burke left, Brad Treliving hasn't made a single good trade. The closest thing he has to a win is Milan Lucic, which he milked a 3rd out of - but even that vanishes into the ether as Brad spends 3rd and 4th round picks on bad hockey players yearly.

The Carolina trade was after Burke left.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

If the Flames bomb this season and end up having to trade Gaudreau and/or Tkachuk, I wouldn't doubt that Treliving gets decent value at the TD. For all his warts, I find Treliving to be a fairly good 'trading GM' for the most part (Hamonic aside) - though that is assuming he is still around calling the shots if it happens.

Treliving has done a good job on those auction type trades, selling guys that have to be traded. He seems to have a good sense of timing and market conditions in those scenarios (think Hudler, where the market was falling out from under his feet).

But those are the easiest deals to make. Valuing the other person's assets is easier (draft picks typically) and the option of waiting for a better deal isn't really on the table.

Hard to imagine they give him another chance at building a competitive team. Eight seasons should be enough to show evidence of progress and an achievable plan.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

The Carolina trade was after Burke left.

Yeah, and we dealt the best player in that deal due to “culture fit”. I don’t think that trade is any sort of win. At best, it’s a wash in my eyes.

The only trades that I’m impressed with are:

Acquiring Dougie Hamilton
Trading away Jiri Hudler
Trading away Sven Baertschi
Trading away Curtis Glencross

…and they were a long, long time ago.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Yeah, and we dealt the best player in that deal due to “culture fit”. I don’t think that trade is any sort of win. At best, it’s a wash in my eyes.

Dougie is great, I am one of his biggest fans here.
But IMO

1. Fox
2. Lindholm
3. Hamilton

In terms of best players in that trade. Agreed, it shouldn't be looked at as a win though.

[Enoch Root]

the Lindholm trade was a win, no matter what you think of Hamilton, because it made the team much better

[Monahammer]

playing around in capfriendly today. We have ~1 mil in space with a 23 man roster. If there's a surprise move to Taxi squads, we could have slightly over 2 mil with 22 men. I wonder if we throw a contract at a PTO from somewhere else to play RW. That or Pospisil could get a shot.

tkachuk-Lindholm-Johnny = line 1, I think everyone is on board.

Mangiapane-Backlund-Coleman = Line 2A defensive matchup line

Dube- Monahan- Skill RW (Gusev? Galchenyuk? Pospisil?) =Line 2B protected Offensive matchup line

Lucic-Richardson-Pitlick= Meatgrinder line

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

the Lindholm trade was a win, no matter what you think of Hamilton, because it made the team much better

Did it?

What are you basing that on? 18/19? We also had a new head coach that year, and a better (but still bad) goalie. I mean we missed the playoffs in Dougie’s last year here, and we missed the playoffs last year. So…the team is better?

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Dougie is great, I am one of his biggest fans here.
But IMO

1. Fox
2. Lindholm
3. Hamilton

In terms of best players in that trade. Agreed, it shouldn't be looked at as a win though.

I would say Hamilton is a more valuable player than Lindholm, but the one big win in that trade was the contract status and the additional years of team control with Lindholm and Hanifin.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

the Lindholm trade was a win, no matter what you think of Hamilton, because it made the team much better

Are we really that different from that 2017-2018 flames squad? minus the one lindholm bump year when Johnny-Mony-Lindy clicked, I would argue we are pretty much the same: a cap team with a lot of expectations on a younger core who can't quite string it together offensively or defensively for long periods and ends up just out of the playoffs.
If anything we're worse because our core has less potential upside to grow into.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Did it?

What are you basing that on? 18/19? We also had a new head coach that year, and a better (but still bad) goalie. I mean we missed the playoffs in Dougie’s last year here, and we missed the playoffs last year. So…the team is better?

the trade made the team better

since then, there have been other factors

is the trade supposed to make them better forever?

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Yeah, and we dealt the best player in that deal due to “culture fit”. I don’t think that trade is any sort of win. At best, it’s a wash in my eyes.

The only trades that I’m impressed with are:

Acquiring Dougie Hamilton
Trading away Jiri Hudler
Trading away Sven Baertschi
Trading away Curtis Glencross

…and they were a long, long time ago.

That trade was Treliving’s best work as GM in my opinion. 3 years later the Canes have the prospects they drafted with the Fox trade and the Flamea have their number 1 center and number 1 Dman signed for sub $5M each for the next 3 years.

I would rather have Lindholm than Hamilton on my team easy. I think we still have more to see out of Hanifin so I disagree with your take. The only moves he really made that blew my mind though were those that involved Hamilton. Getting him and trading him away are my Treliving highlights. The long term extensions and some of the free agent signings were good but the bad coaching hires, brutal free agents, wasted picks, and lack of movement in the last 3 years has me at the end of my rope with him. He must go if this team fails this year

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Dougie is great, I am one of his biggest fans here.
But IMO

1. Fox
2. Lindholm
3. Hamilton

In terms of best players in that trade. Agreed, it shouldn't be looked at as a win though.

Issue is Fox has as much as admitted that he wasn’t signing here or Carolina. So his value was the equivalent of the 2 seconds Carolina got for him.

Lindholm
Hanifin

For

Ferland
Hamilton
2 Seconds

That’s a win for the Flames IMO. Especially considering the contract status of Ferland and Hamilton both being UFAs at the end of those deals. While Flames had two RFAs they were able to negotiate with.

[Enoch Root]

you have to really be hating on the Flames to think they lost that trade

"they're no better now"

Well yeah, but that is because of a myriad of other factors