Star Trek General Discussion

[Locke]

[Yeah_Baby]

I totally remember the Garrett Wang thing. The due just looked so sad with his little sign in the Vendor room.

I'm sure he'd be a bigger draw now though with the whole Podcast thing, but my buddy and I had a google chuckle about that.

[CaptainCrunch]

I think that they completely wrecked the Kim character when 7of9 makes the moves on him and he turns her down flat because he was ascared.


I can see the promotion board meeting on that one.



Janeway - "Next up, Harry Kim, he's been an ensign for like 4 years, his service record is ok, he makes a good cup of coffee. I think we reward him and finally promote him to Lt, any objections".


Paris - "Yeah, 7of9 made the total moves on her and he got scared and turned her down, he basically ran screaming"


Janeway - "really? Well we can't have that in our Lt's. Promotion denied, and give him extra shifts making coffee"

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Yeah_Baby

I totally remember the Garrett Wang thing. The due just looked so sad with his little sign in the Vendor room.

I'm sure he'd be a bigger draw now though with the whole Podcast thing, but my buddy and I had a google chuckle about that.

The Garrett Wang at Comic-Con thing is hilarious and, on the surface, quite pathetic.

But hey, give the guy credit. He bet on himself, he put his money where his mouth was and he put in the effort and now he gets regular gigs hosting Comic Cons.

So good for him. Its not my cup of tea, but he took the risk, put in the work and the effort and it paid off for him, so...Kudos Ensign Kim!

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by Locke

The Garrett Wang at Comic-Con thing is hilarious and, on the surface, quite pathetic.

But hey, give the guy credit. He bet on himself, he put his money where his mouth was and he put in the effort and now he gets regular gigs hosting Comic Cons.

So good for him. Its not my cup of tea, but he took the risk, put in the work and the effort and it paid off for him, so...Kudos Ensign Kim!

1000 percent. The guy hustled hard in the last 11 years.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Yeah_Baby

1000 percent. The guy hustled hard in the last 11 years.

Thats the thing about Star Trek, you can live off it.

They hire tons and tons of extras, film crews, make-up and effects designers, craft services, support staff the whole lot.

I remember watching an interview with Robert Beltran (Chakotay) who was really disenfranchised because he felt his character was shoved off to the wayside but upon further reflection he commended Star Trek because Voyager set him up for life.

Even guys like Nimoy who resented Star Trek because they felt it pigeon-holed them as actors...he came around eventually and embraced it. Look at the two titles of his biographies.

Shatner railed against it constantly until he realized that post-Trek his phone was not exactly ringing off the hook for work.

Nimoy and the Shat should be worshipping upon the Altar of Trek! Hell, look at Frakes! Without the Directing experience he got with Trek where would he be?

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by Locke

Thats the thing about Star Trek, you can live off it.

They hire tons and tons of extras, film crews, make-up and effects designers, craft services, support staff the whole lot.

I remember watching an interview with Robert Beltran (Chakotay) who was really disenfranchised because he felt his character was shoved off to the wayside but upon further reflection he commended Star Trek because Voyager set him up for life.

Even guys like Nimoy who resented Star Trek because they felt it pigeon-holed them as actors...he came around eventually and embraced it. Look at the two titles of his biographies.

Shatner railed against it constantly until he realized that post-Trek his phone was not exactly ringing off the hook for work.

Nimoy and the Shat should be worshipping upon the Altar of Trek! Hell, look at Frakes! Without the Directing experience he got with Trek where would he be?

Ditto Roxann Dawson

[CaptainCrunch]

I think they touched on it in one of the Trekkie movies that Denise Crosby did. A lot of the voyager cast was on and they talked about the incredible income, but the lineup of Star Trek Groupies at every convention, they made it sound like Caligula.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I think they touched on it in one of the Trekkie movies that Denise Crosby did. A lot of the voyager cast was on and they talked about the incredible income, but the lineup of Star Trek Groupies at every convention, they made it sound like Caligula.

And Denise Crosby heavily regrets her decision to leave the show. Hence why she came back again and again and again at every opportunity.

Its not like her phone was ringing off the hook for work post-Trek.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Locke

And Denise Crosby heavily regrets her decision to leave the show. Hence why she came back again and again and again at every opportunity.

Its not like her phone was ringing off the hook for work post-Trek.

When you're in the weeds it's hard to see the forest through the trees.


If you're Crosby, you're 15 episodes in and you can't see how your character grows from where she is. Hell you can't even see the show lasting beyond the first season. You're not having fun. Get out, get some leading roles. You're a beautiful young actress, you'll get yours somewhere else. Two years later, none of the opportunities you saw yourself walking into have appeared. You flip on TNG and see Dorn, who now has your on the show job, centering main plots in multiple episodes as the second season sees the security officer's role grow. You see a show that has stabilized with episodes boasting major guest stars and a fresh-off-her-academy-award Whoopi Goldberg taking a reoccurring role.


It's a pretty easy thing to look back on, even that soon and realize "####."



I never really understood Robert Beltran's problem. He was still fairly well represented. He still saw starring episodes and major over-arching plots concerning his character. I don't really know what he expected? Especially in that last season where everything was rushed and shoved out. The final five minutes of the show sees like five major season-to-series long plots wrapped up. It's crazy. Especially if you compare it to DS9's wrap up. It was everyone's character, not just Chakotay that got rushed off.

[WhiteTiger]

I just finished watching the two DS9 "Past Tense" episodes.

Man, there is some gold in there that could have been mined out over a season or two.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by WhiteTiger

I just finished watching the two DS9 "Past Tense" episodes.

Man, there is some gold in there that could have been mined out over a season or two.

Totally. I was just reminiscing on these a couple of pages back- they are almost clairvoyent. If we get a Trump presidency I have 0 doubt that there will be "sanctuaries".
The only thing they missed on was the style choices. Jadzia looks totally ridiculous while Sisko and Bashir look like they belong on set for peeky blinders.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

When you're in the weeds it's hard to see the forest through the trees.


If you're Crosby, you're 15 episodes in and you can't see how your character grows from where she is. Hell you can't even see the show lasting beyond the first season. You're not having fun. Get out, get some leading roles. You're a beautiful young actress, you'll get yours somewhere else. Two years later, none of the opportunities you saw yourself walking into have appeared. You flip on TNG and see Dorn, who now has your on the show job, centering main plots in multiple episodes as the second season sees the security officer's role grow. You see a show that has stabilized with episodes boasting major guest stars and a fresh-off-her-academy-award Whoopi Goldberg taking a reoccurring role.


It's a pretty easy thing to look back on, even that soon and realize "####."



I never really understood Robert Beltran's problem. He was still fairly well represented. He still saw starring episodes and major over-arching plots concerning his character. I don't really know what he expected? Especially in that last season where everything was rushed and shoved out. The final five minutes of the show sees like five major season-to-series long plots wrapped up. It's crazy. Especially if you compare it to DS9's wrap up. It was everyone's character, not just Chakotay that got rushed off.

You're preaching to the Choir.

Dorn did what most of them did, he turned a bit-part character into a career.

He got spun off onto DS9, did a few movies, what was Crosby doing in all that time? What are Dorn's career Star Trek earnings? Probably nothing to sneeze at.

As for Beltran, I dont know. In the moment he might not have been happy as an 'artist' but cashing cheques that pay your mortgage have a funny way of alleviating those types of grievances.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Locke

You're preaching to the Choir.

Dorn did what most of them did, he turned a bit-part character into a career.

I think that's unfair and also giving Dorn more credit than he deserves at the same time. Worf became a fleshed out and important character for the rest of TNG's run and immediately became one of the best characters in DS9 and Dorn's portrayal was a big part of making that work. Much more important than a bit-part. He was a bigger factor than Scotty, Chekov, Sulu etc were in TOS while filling that support position role. But I think a big part of that was the writers figuring that dynamic out and learning how to use the characters they had better. It could have been just about anyone else, like, say Denise Crosby and Tasha Yar.

Originally Posted by Locke

He got spun off onto DS9, did a few movies, what was Crosby doing in all that time? What are Dorn's career Star Trek earnings? Probably nothing to sneeze at.

He's talked about it. He doesn't really have to work much anymore. He could do the Cons of his choosing and then sit back.

Originally Posted by Locke

As for Beltran, I dont know. In the moment he might not have been happy as an 'artist' but cashing cheques that pay your mortgage have a funny way of alleviating those types of grievances.

And I just don't get what he was unhappy with as an artist. I just don't think much changed in his usage. Maybe it was that the usage didn't change or grow, I guess. But he's still always on screen and he's still always playing a major role.

[CaptainCrunch]

I remember hearing that Beltran was pretty much toxic from the start. But there was lots of toxic in that cast.



Mulgrew and Ryan hated each other by the time the show ended, and didn't fix that for years.



But its a star trek tradition, we see these cohesive crews on the show and then find out that they all pretty much hated each other. Galaxy Quest captured it perfectly.

[SutterBrother]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Galaxy Quest captured it perfectly.

Oh boy did it ever. I loved "Ensign Expendible" on there just kind of slides in.

[Blaster86]

Ryan and Mulgrew hated eachother from the start. No one on the main cast of fond of Jeri Ryan when she started. They had, to that point, spent three or four years together as a cast and then the UPN execs decide they need something to make the show more appealing. They decide Borg Bambi is the way to go. But they also decide that the show doesn't get additional budget for this so one of the main cast has gots ta go to make way.

While business is business, a lot of them looked at it as Jennifer Lien got pushed out for Jeri Ryan while at the same time, the rest of the cast were told they weren't good enough to carry the show.

Apparently Dorn experienced a similar icing out when he first started on DS9 due to the cast's feeling him being parachuted in was a mark against them. I can imagine it would have been a much longer and severe icing out if him arriving also saw Alexander Siddig fired to make way.

Say what you will, the cast had a point. Kate Mulgrew just took it to the nth degree and never forgave Ryan until long after the series ended.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

Ryan and Mulgrew hated eachother from the start. No one on the main cast of fond of Jeri Ryan when she started. They had, to that point, spent three or four years together as a cast and then the UPN execs decide they need something to make the show more appealing. They decide Borg Bambi is the way to go. But they also decide that the show doesn't get additional budget for this so one of the main cast has gots ta go to make way.

While business is business, a lot of them looked at it as Jennifer Lien got pushed out for Jeri Ryan while at the same time, the rest of the cast were told they weren't good enough to carry the show.

Apparently Dorn experienced a similar icing out when he first started on DS9 due to the cast's feeling him being parachuted in was a mark against them. I can imagine it would have been a much longer and severe icing out if him arriving also saw Alexander Siddig fired to make way.

Say what you will, the cast had a point. Kate Mulgrew just took it to the nth degree and never forgave Ryan until long after the series ended.

The Voyager cast had a minor, inconsequential point. Because the studio was right on that one, the current cast couldnt carry the show.

Some may infer 'inject hot woman' was the entire point and thats not wholly wrong, but really it was a '2-birds' scenario. While bringing in an attractive woman helped, it also allowed the writers to bring in the Borg which essentially solidified the storyline of the back-half of that entire series.

And if Mulgrew and Co. didnt like it? That show was dying. Take on a new cast member or the lot of you get turfed.

And Jennifer Lien was let go because apparently she was borderline psychotic.

As for Dorn, thats a harder one. I have not seen any evidence that he was a jerk or an ass or anything, but the rest of the cast just really didnt like him. TNG and DS9. He was always the butt of the on-set jokes and pranks.

Obviously I dont know the guy, but I thought Dorn played the part he was given really well and while not one of my favourite characters, Worf had some really interesting arcs that moved Star Trek forward.

Maybe he was just a crummy co-worker, who knows? Maybe he beat Frakes to the Craft Services table and took all the good sammiches!!

[timun]

Originally Posted by Locke

As for Dorn, thats a harder one. I have not seen any evidence that he was a jerk or an ass or anything, but the rest of the cast just really didnt like him. TNG and DS9. He was always the butt of the on-set jokes and pranks.

Where'd you hear that no one on the TNG and DS9 casts liked Dorn?

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Locke

The Voyager cast had a minor, inconsequential point. Because the studio was right on that one, the current cast couldnt carry the show.

The counter to that is, they had just reached the point that TNG and DS9 really started to run instead of walk. I agree though. The cast was too mundane.

Originally Posted by Locke

Some may infer 'inject hot woman' was the entire point and thats not wholly wrong, but really it was a '2-birds' scenario. While bringing in an attractive woman helped, it also allowed the writers to bring in the Borg which essentially solidified the storyline of the back-half of that entire series.

The Borg were always a matter of when. We knew they were in the Delta Quadrant after Descent. A Borg crew member was something that certainly helped breakup the mundane nature of the cast though. But that still isn't going to make the cast feel better about losing a friend. Jennifer Lien is a nut bar now. The idea that she was experiencing mental health troubles then is some recent revisionist history from Jeri Taylor. It's pretty widely known that Garrett Wang was on the wall with a blind fold and a cigarette before getting the Governor's call that was People's Magazine 50 sexiest people list.

Originally Posted by Locke

As for Dorn, thats a harder one. I have not seen any evidence that he was a jerk or an ass or anything, but the rest of the cast just really didnt like him. TNG and DS9. He was always the butt of the on-set jokes and pranks.

The pranking, teasing and joking around with Dorn has always been something between friends where one is a bit easier to prank and bug than others. By all accounts he is really well liked by the TNG cast, if a bit of a stick in the mud. Marina Sirits refers to him as her best friend. He was a groomsman at LeVar Burton's wedding.

Originally Posted by timun

Where'd you hear that no one on the TNG and DS9 casts liked Dorn?

Without doing much research, it's very easy to find him being the butt of just about every joke or prank on the TNG set. When one person is constantly targeted, it's pretty easy to infer that they're probably not well liked.