Alberta Politics Thread

[LanceUppercut]

Originally Posted by Slava

So let me ask the obvious question. Let's say that we get past a lot of issues and everyone votes and we separate. We can't get a pipeline approved to get our main resource to a coast today. How do we do that any easier if we are a separate nation?

I'd say the real end game would be an independently governed territory of the United States, sort of like Puerto Rico. Land locked Alberta could not survive on it's own.

Edit: Cutting off British Columbia from the rest of Canada could possibly drive them out of Confederation as well.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Alberta Rico?

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by Slava

So let me ask the obvious question. Let's say that we get past a lot of issues and everyone votes and we separate. We can't get a pipeline approved to get our main resource to a coast today. How do we do that any easier if we are a separate nation?

Not that i've spent much time on the issue, but as I understand it, the idea is:

a) in the interim, the net flow "out" of Alberta tax dollars ends, and what would otherwise be distributed in transfer payments remains in Alberta;
b) once the net flow is cut off, the other provinces would have to decide to negotiate with Alberta to allow a pipeline, or otherwise come up with the loss in revenue from Alberta's contribution to the national tax base; and
c) other provinces, or portions of provinces, may join, a separate Alberta in time. Or alternatively, may enter into trade agreements with Alberta.


Whether people agree with them is a different story.

[Flash Walken]

Yeah, that's how you really get what you want, become an economic territory of the united states without legal representation.

The instant regret of Albertans voting to separate from Canada would make the Brexit look like a lost dinner reservation.

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Yeah, that's how you really get what you want, become an economic territory of the united states without legal representation.

The instant regret of Albertans voting to separate from Canada would make the Brexit look like a lost dinner reservation.

So in your opinion Alberta should shut up and suck it up while the rest of Canada squeezes the revenue out of the province and abandons the 100,000s of thousands affected by job loss?

You may not agree with separation, but surely you have to agree that Alberta is not getting it's fair shake right now on the national stage.

[Tron_fdc]

Originally Posted by Slava

So let me ask the obvious question. Let's say that we get past a lot of issues and everyone votes and we separate. We can't get a pipeline approved to get our main resource to a coast today. How do we do that any easier if we are a separate nation?

We pay less in transfer payments, hire a lobby group and ram it through Montana.

Problem solved.

[LanceUppercut]

There really would only be two options available for a separate Alberta. First would be to convince British Columbia they need to come with us and use their coast to our advantage. If this would work, the talk of separation would be moot as we would have pipelines to the coast being built already. The second would be economic union with the US somehow. As a territory or state who knows. This wouldn't be palatable to many people either as we would lose too much.

Basically, separation wouldn't solve much other than screwing over the rest of Canada short (long?) term.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

So in your opinion Alberta should shut up and suck it up while the rest of Canada squeezes the revenue out of the province and abandons the 100,000s of thousands affected by job loss?

You may not agree with separation, but surely you have to agree that Alberta is not getting it's fair shake right now on the national stage.

I think Alberta is doing better than it ever has on the national stage.

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I think Alberta is doing better than it ever has on the national stage.

Well that explains an awful lot, doesn't it.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

So in your opinion Alberta should shut up and suck it up while the rest of Canada squeezes the revenue out of the province and abandons the 100,000s of thousands affected by job loss?

You may not agree with separation, but surely you have to agree that Alberta is not getting it's fair shake right now on the national stage.

How are we not getting our fair shake though? Part of a confederation is that wealthier provinces help support poorer provinces...which seems to be a source of consternation here in Alberta. Is it the pipelines? Does that mean that if/when we see a pipeline approved in the next few years then we're all good?

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

Well that explains an awful lot, doesn't it.

Show your work.

When has Alberta been better represented at the national stage than following 10 years of having a Calgarian as Prime Minister?

Was the province not wildly successful during the oil boom?

Did Alberta not receive federal investment dollars?

Was it better for Alberta on the National stage in the 70s? What about the 80s? Maybe it was the 90s?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Slava

So let me ask the obvious question. Let's say that we get past a lot of issues and everyone votes and we separate. We can't get a pipeline approved to get our main resource to a coast today. How do we do that any easier if we are a separate nation?

Jokingly.

If they want to stay in the confederation, we put a tariff on their goods that need to go to across our country to he rest of Canada, and offer to take it off if they approve pipelines for Alberta.

If Canada decides to invade us, we go to the UN and demand intervention against a aggressive nation.

[the_only_turek_fan]

Originally Posted by Slava

How are we not getting our fair shake though? Part of a confederation is that wealthier provinces help support poorer provinces...which seems to be a source of consternation here in Alberta. Is it the pipelines? Does that mean that if/when we see a pipeline approved in the next few years then we're all good?

We just need good managers. Haven't you read the Art of the Deal?

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Jokingly.

If they want to stay in the confederation, we put a tariff on their goods that need to go to across our country to he rest of Canada, and offer to take it off if they approve pipelines for Alberta.

Threatening the rest of the country ends poorly for Alberta as not only would exporting goods become impossible, but the province would pretty much have a gun to its head when it comes to importing goods, too.

[Resolute 14]

Alberta separating would be lunacy.

The four western provinces separating together would be a far more interesting situation. And one that would leave Ontario and especially Quebec crapping their pants given the fact that about $14 billion is going to leave the west this year to prop up the east via equalization.

Not to say that is a great solution either.

[killer_carlson]

Long term Alberta isn't going to last on its own. But it sure is attractive to a lot of places for a lot of reasons (basically anyone not in the Ont govt, Que govt, Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver or Victoria).

One of the interesting suggestions that someone has made is that if Alberta were to court Northern and eastern BC to join, leaving Vancouver and the Island out of the offer. So the mountains and the northern half of BC would join Alberta. It puts a twist on the angle to resolve the land locked concern.

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

One of the interesting suggestions that someone has made is that if Alberta were to court Northern and eastern BC to join, leaving Vancouver and the Island out of the offer. So the mountains and the northern half of BC would join Alberta. It puts a twist on the angle to resolve the land locked concern.

Ahh so we cut off and encircle the Chinese. Cool.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Alberta separating would be lunacy.

The four western provinces separating together would be a far more interesting situation. And one that would leave Ontario and especially Quebec crapping their pants given the fact that about $14 billion is going to leave the west this year to prop up the east via equalization.

Not to say that is a great solution either.

We can do a union with Sask and Manitoba. Maybe a port is possible for Hudson Bay although I believe the ice situation could be tricky and we would probably need some sort of agreement with Canada for use of the Hudson Strait. If BC wants in they need to provide access to the Pacific for the oil.

[Flash Walken]

Alberta and Quebec might be the most two alike provinces in the Country.

[Fuzz]

You guys are ridiculous.