Calgary Civic Election: Mayoralty Poll #4 - The Heat is On

[Ducay]

Originally Posted by stampsx2

^^^McIvor it is then.

So Nenshi is also out of touch with what's happening in the SW?

Getting downtown isn't the only problem. I don't make money when I'm stuck in traffic travelling between the deep SW and the NW.

Rocky View paramedics have higher response times because of the 14th Street backlog.

One accident in the SW backs everything up on other arteries.

Are you serious? As a SW resident who is "in touch", the SW ring road is not a top priority. Sure you may benefit, but the vaassstt majority of deep SW residents are having trouble getting into downtown, not the NW (as you are).

But go ahead, make your decision that is more of a provicial/federal issue. Just don't complain to CP when McIver gets elected and still can't make your terrible idea come to fruition.

[SportsJunky]

Originally Posted by Ducay

Are you serious? As a SW resident who is "in touch", the SW ring road is not a top priority. Sure you may benefit, but the vaassstt majority of deep SW residents are having trouble getting into downtown, not the NW (as you are).

I suppose that's true but getting SW to NW is a living hell and it needs to be addressed. I am in the deep SW and cringe everytime I have to head north. The SW ring road is a top priority as far as many of us are concerned. It may not lose Nenshi my vote but it is still a top priority.

[Ducay]

Originally Posted by SportsJunky

I suppose that's true but getting SW to NW is a living hell and it needs to be addressed. I am in the deep SW and cringe everytime I have to head north. The SW ring road is a top priority as far as many of us are concerned. It may not lose Nenshi my vote but it is still a top priority.

I totally agree. It is an issue, and will be built eventually. What alignment it takes and where it begins/terminates is the real question.


What I truely HATE about this election is the fact that major infrastructure undertakings (SW RR, SE LRT, NE LRT, Airport Tunnel) are being made into simple YES/NO questions, and if X person is elected, they will start construction the next day and it'll just be the easiest thing in the world.

[stampsx2]

SW to NW ring road is a top priority for me too. Not sure how you know that the vaasssttt majority of residents have trouble getting into downtown. Never seen such stats. If I worked downtown I would be catching the C-Train.

By the way I do drive into downtown from time to time and it is nothing compared to 14th, the Deerfoot, Glenmore, Memorial etc etc. At least they have done a very good job syncing up the lights on MacLeod.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by Ducay

Are you serious? As a SW resident who is "in touch", the SW ring road is not a top priority. Sure you may benefit, but the vaassstt majority of deep SW residents are having trouble getting into downtown, not the NW (as you are).

But go ahead, make your decision that is more of a provicial/federal issue. Just don't complain to CP when McIver gets elected and still can't make your terrible idea come to fruition.

SW is severally limited in major crosstown roads though, at least to me. Off the top of my head, you have McLeod Trail, Glenmore Trail, and Crowchild north of Glenmore as the major routes that can get you across town to the other quadrants of the city. Now I'm not an expert and someone else is most likely has a better idea on the SW commute issues, but clearly the amount of road options seems to be too low for the amount of cars that use the roads in that area; especially south of Glenmore. There may be a lot of people that want to get downtown, but there is also a lot of people that want to get NW, upper SW, or even west of the city. Let's also not forget about trucks that are moving around the SW part of town.

If you want to get northwest, you're going to have to use Glenmore then go up Crowchild. If your south of Glenmore, you'll have to go up McLeod Trail to get to Glenmore if you're not using Deerfoot. If a traffic incident occurs on one of those routes during rush hour, it has to create a major jam for commuters and greatly delays them from reaching their destination. People getting downtown, NW, or any other part of the city get screwed.

Now although the North is lacking a true E-W freeway (Stoney doesn't really classify as this), the road atrial network works well enough that you have multiple ways of moving around and don't have to be forced to use one major road only. In the NE, you have 16th Ave, McKnight Blvd, Country Hills and Metis Trail in the future, and of course Deerfoot and Stoney Trail. That's several routes that can move you E-W and N-S. If one route is jammed with a traffic incident, you can use alternative routes don't get trapped. In the NW, you have 16th Ave, John Laurie, Crowchild, Country Hills, Stoney Trail, Shaganappi and Sarcee Trail to move you around. Again, good number of crosstown routes to use whether you want to get into downtown or go to work elsewhere.

The NE and NW ring roads aren't really needed for people to get around town, but since it's been built, it has greatly benefited the transportation network in those two areas of town. The road is primarily meant for trucks to go around the city and avoid lights, but it's also for commuters to use on the east side of town as another Deerfoot. This will defiantly be the case in the long term when the city moves east of Stoney. For the SW, the ring road is the same way for the most part. Trucks are going to be using the ring road to get across town, and a ton of people are going to be using it as general commute route like Deerfoot. If the SW leg that was originally planned still gets build, commuters in the SW will now have more options of getting around the city, because they won't have to rely on McLeod to go north or south alone anymore. They won't have to rely on Glenmore and even Crowchild Trail anymore to get into the NW since Sarcee Trail becomes a new option. The planners had this in mind, which seems to be why the SW leg will have so many lanes off the bat, because it's meant to have heavy traffic use off the bat.

I like Nenshi idea of improving 14 Street to make it a better route to get downtown, but it's not going to be the answer for the SW. Like it or not, the SW is going to need to have a adequate freeway style of road to complete the ring road and improve mobility in that part of town. Whether that means reopening negotiation with Tisa T'ina, or unfortunately knocking down some homes along 37 street.

[stampsx2]

Originally Posted by Joborule

......If a traffic incident occurs on one of those routes during rush hour, it has to create a major jam for commuters and greatly delays them from reaching their destination. People getting downtown, NW, or any other part of the city get screwed........

This. Not to mention, I use the existing Stoney Trail like mad. It's been a lifesaver everyday. Really helps with work.

What can I say, infrastructure matters.

[Eddie Bronze]

I'm not sure exactly what's going to come of the mess of traffic in the SW but I do know they better do something and they better do it right and not have to go back and do it all over again like so many areas in this city. I was working in Silverado for quite a long stretch and after a few weeks of trying to maneuver from there to where I live (close to UofC) I had to give up on traveling through the city. I started driving from Silverado to Bragg Creek to the number one and back into Calgary and I could do that nearly 90km drive in the same amount of time it took to go McLeod/Anderson/14th/Glenmore/Crowchild which is one third of the distance. How pathetic is that? People are wasting their lives sitting in their cars in this city and the environmental impact is astronomical.

I understand the road system wasn't set-up in anticipation of a boom, but the point is you have to find answers and so far there hasn't been any answers to the road system here. I've only been in Calgary six years but even with all the work they've done, it's not keeping up with the growth because I'm certain from using all the different major thoroughfares traffic has gotten worse since I moved here.

[CrunchBite]

Originally Posted by stampsx2

This. Not to mention, I use the existing Stoney Trail like mad. It's been a lifesaver everyday. Really helps with work.

What can I say, infrastructure matters.

Something needs to be done in that whole area still, Friday late morning Glenmore was backed up solid from at least 14th street to Sarcee trail. This was screwing up traffic badly on everything that even went near it. Not really a ring road problem, but there's way more issues than just getting people downtown in the SW.

[burn_this_city]

Pfff we don't need better infrastructure, we need a $500 million dollar airport tunnel.

[Mazrim]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Pfff we don't need better infrastructure, we need a $500 million dollar airport tunnel.

Where does everyone keep getting this $500 million pricetag from?

Also, if anyone needs evidence that the SW badly needs the ring road, check out Glenmore on a Saturday afternoon. It is as busy as rush hour on a weekday, and guess what? No one goes downtown on the weekend. Even on a weekday, the amount of traffic using Glenmore to go from the SE Industrial parks to the SW is huge.

1 short lane closure on Sarcee jammed up the whole area traffic wise, on a Saturday. I couldn't believe it.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by Mazrim

Where does everyone keep getting this $500 million pricetag from?

Also, if anyone needs evidence that the SW badly needs the ring road, check out Glenmore on a Saturday afternoon. It is as busy as rush hour on a weekday, and guess what? No one goes downtown on the weekend. Even on a weekday, the amount of traffic using Glenmore to go from the SE Industrial parks to the SW is huge.

1 short lane closure on Sarcee jammed up the whole area traffic wise, on a Saturday. I couldn't believe it.

Its $300 million for the tunnel and upwards of $500 million including necessary interchanges and other upgrades.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/calgary/sto...-alliance.html

[SebC]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Its $300 million for the tunnel and upwards of $500 million including necessary interchanges and other upgrades.

Yeah, and the necessary interchanges and other upgrades without the tunnel are $350 million (which is not an error - more upgrades elsewhere are needed if the tunnel isn't built). Ergo, the economic cost of the tunnel, i.e. the cost that's relevant to decision making, is $150 million.

[Kelekin]

Thought I'd link this, since earlier on people were asking about campaign donations. Finally finished getting through my numbers. http://calgarypolitics.com/2010/10/03/wallet2/

Read part one first, though.

[Bunk]

If you're interested in really understanding Nenshi's view on movement in the SW, listen to podcast #5. The problems and potential solutions are very complex down there. It's not just a matter of saying "let's build the ring road" and it will happen.

http://www.nenshi.ca/new/policy/podcast

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by SebC

Yeah, and the necessary interchanges and other upgrades without the tunnel are $350 million (which is not an error - more upgrades elsewhere are needed if the tunnel isn't built). Ergo, the economic cost of the tunnel, i.e. the cost that's relevant to decision making, is $150 million.

Not if the Federal and Provincial governments kick in on the other upgrades. They are against funding the tunnel, doesn't mean they won't support other options.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Not if the Federal and Provincial governments kick in on the other upgrades. They are against funding the tunnel, doesn't mean they won't support other options.

I'm not really sure how provincial/federal funding would be affected, but I suspect that neither do you. What I do know is that for the airport tunnel to have any chance at provincial funding, the city needs to identify it as a priority.

Go ahead and vote for Hawkesworth if you want. Every viable candidate supports the tunnel to some extent, so I don't know how it's even an issue at this point.

[Zee]

If traffic from SW to downtown is better managed, it will help traffic going from SW to NW will it not?

[stampsx2]

Originally Posted by Bunk

If you're interested in really understanding Nenshi's view on movement in the SW, listen to podcast #5. The problems and potential solutions are very complex down there. It's not just a matter of saying "let's build the ring road" and it will happen.

http://www.nenshi.ca/new/policy/podcast

Nenshi kinda contradicts himself in his podcast. He says we don't really need a SW ring road. 90% of traffic out of the SW can be cleared up by improving the commute downtown. But if 90% of traffic goes downtown why is he supporting a tunnel in the NE. The tunnel doesn't go downtown. Also why would we need a SE ring road? 90% of traffic goes downtown. But I can tell you I use it at rush hour every single day.

Building the ring road will decrease traffic on feeders into downtown because those not going downtown will bypass the city.

All of his solutions are short term. Making 14th st better, lane reversals. None of this factors in the growing communities south of 22X in the next 10 to 20 years.

I want to vote for the guy, he seems reasonable but it's hard for me to vote for someone who doesn't support a real SW ring road.

Still better than Higgins and Hawkesworth after their 37st debacle.

[Flames0910]

Originally Posted by stampsx2

All of his solutions are short term. Making 14th st better, lane reversals. None of this factors in the growing communities south of 22X in the next 10 to 20 years.

I want to vote for the guy, he seems reasonable but it's hard for me to vote for someone who doesn't support a real SW ring road.

I don't disagree with what you're saying as I have wasted many many hours of my life commuting from the deep deep SW to the University. Personally I think the residents of Lakeview knew what they were getting into and need to take some responsibility for their decision.

That being said, I think the short term solutions you mentioned are an important part of a long term plan towards improving the southwest traffic situation (we need to get things flowing NOW, not in 5 years.)

Higgins and Mciver treat the ring road like it will magically fix all our traffic problems. It won't. I am more comfortable with the idea of Nenshi pushing towards a long term traffic solution than I am with Higgins or Mciver.

[frinkprof]

Originally Posted by stampsx2

Nenshi kinda contradicts himself in his podcast. He says we don't really need a SW ring road. 90% of traffic out of the SW can be cleared up by improving the commute downtown. But if 90% of traffic goes downtown why is he supporting a tunnel in the NE. The tunnel doesn't go downtown. Also why would we need a SE ring road? 90% of traffic goes downtown. But I can tell you I use it at rush hour every single day.

Building the ring road will decrease traffic on feeders into downtown because those not going downtown will bypass the city.

All of his solutions are short term. Making 14th st better, lane reversals. None of this factors in the growing communities south of 22X in the next 10 to 20 years.

I want to vote for the guy, he seems reasonable but it's hard for me to vote for someone who doesn't support a real SW ring road.

Still better than Higgins and Hawkesworth after their 37st debacle.

He means 90% of the traffic in the southwest goes downtown. The southwest, and particularly the west side (west of Crowchild, north of Glenmore) has the highest proportion of downtown office workers, when compared with other areas of the city. Hence why West LRT made so much sense.

The northeast part of the city, particularly east of the airport has the highest proportion of airport workers, compared to other areas of the city. I don't have the exact numbers, but considerably less than 90% of the traffic from this area is going downtown.