Aviation Appreciation Station

[Bigtime]

So we all remember the LOT 767 that had to make the belly landing in Warsaw on November 1st. Well the preliminary report is out and it looks like one of the circuit breakers that protects the alternate landing gear extension system was popped. Quote from AvHerald ( http://www.avherald.com/h?article=4456bd6b%2F0005&opt=0 ):

About 15-20 minutes after the end of the evacuation the first members of PKBWL arrived at the scene and found the "C829 BAT BUS DISTR" circuit breaker on the P6 panel was in the popped position, the "C4248 LANDING GEAR - ALTN EXT MOTOR" circuit breaker was in the closed position. The recordings of cockpit voice recorder and flight data recorder were secured.

Circuit breaker C829 protects a number of systems including the alternate landing gear extension system. It's position was not recorded or indicated by any aircraft system.

After the aircraft was lifted off the runway, the circuit breaker C829 was closed, then the alternate landing gear extension was activated and successfully extended the landing gear, so that the aircraft could be towed to the airline's maintenance hangar.

Ouch, that's a pretty expensive mistake that could have been avoided had the circuit breaker been checked. Anyone know if checking that panel would have been part of troubleshooting why the alternate gear extension system wasn't working?

[Titan]

Originally Posted by Ryan Coke

No, differential thrust is not used in a cross wind landing, it serves no purpose in that case. Typically the autothrottles are off below 100' and the flying pilot is running the thrust, so they can make rapid changes if needed during the flare.

As for types of x-wind landing techniques q-scout, they have basically been covered here; slip (most common), last second kick, crab on, and combination technique (some slip, some crab). You don't use different techniques at different airports specifically, but based on different aircraft and conditions.

A canadair rj has low wing tips, so very little bank can be in or else they will strike the runway. So last second kick is more common on that.

The 737 can do slip up to approx. 20 kts of direct x wind ( depending on flap setting ) before there is a risk of contact wing tips, engine fairings, or flap track fairings.

On a dry runway landing crab on is more uncomfortable as it straightens out more aggressively. On a wet runway it is quite comfortable as it straightens out more slowly.

On a low visibility approach, landing crab on is more desirable as inputting slip is destabilizing (as you bank you change the lift vector, the slip increases drag, all as you are flaring in unstable air).

My point is there are several issues that are weighed when deciding what technique to use. Having said that, most of the time in average winds it is a slip that will be used on most aircraft, and certainly on 737s.

I hope that all wasn't too confusing, just trying to illustrate some of the factors that we are considering when landing.

New to this thread so fata alert but is anyone else concerned that Ryan Coke is a commercial pilot? Not sure the user name inspires a bunch of confidence.

Also, jus had an equally disturbing thought, none of those cockpit computers can get CP on it can they? Not a comforing thought that he is slip/crab/upside down landing and arguing about trading Iginla all at the same time. I know I am on CP at my job but that is TOTALLY different.

[MarchHare]

Not sure the user name inspires a bunch of confidence.

True story:

I was on a commercial flight with my father about 15 years ago. While we're taxiing to the runway, the first officer comes on the intercom and does the usual pre-flight spiel in his best Chuck Yeager accent ("We'll be cruising at 37,000 feet, weather conditions are good, we anticipate to be on the ground at our destination on time, blah blah blah..."). He ends his speech with, "On behalf of Captain Stall and the rest of the crew, we thank you for choosing us today and wish you a relaxing and enjoyable flight." I look at my dad, he looks at me, and we both burst into laughter. I said to him, "Well, I suppose it's a better name than Captain Unrecoverable Spin."

[Bigtime]

Or Captain Spiral Dive.

[Bill Bumface]

Can someone explain a slip landing to someone who isn't a pilot?

I understand airplane basics (ailerons, flaps, rudders etc) but just not how they are used in different situations.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

Can someone explain a slip landing to someone who isn't a pilot?

I understand airplane basics (ailerons, flaps, rudders etc) but just not how they are used in different situations.

Say you're trying to land with a crosswind. With the slip technique, you roll slightly with the low wing going into the wind, but then you apply rudder in the opposite direction so that your aircraft continues moving in a straight path towards the runway's centerline.

[Bill Bumface]

So basically using a component of your lift to counteract some of the x-wind?

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

Can someone explain a slip landing to someone who isn't a pilot?

I understand airplane basics (ailerons, flaps, rudders etc) but just not how they are used in different situations.

I'll take a shot, although I wish I could just stand up in front of you with a model and show it!

-Approaching a runway with a crosswind the pilot would position the nose of the plane such that the actual track of the aircraft is still towards the runway.

-On final approach they will add rudder to point the nose straight at the runway, at the same time they will input opposite aileron control to roll of the aircraft (into the wind as MarchHare points out).

-So at this point the nose will be pointed right at the runway and one wing will be slightly lower due to the cross control. This is adjusted and held through the flare and touchdown, leading to one main gear landing first, followed by the other side and then finally the nose gear.

Of course due to the slip causing a wing low condition this is why you don't see most airliners utilizing it, as it could easily cause an engine or wing to strike the ground. But we always used this method in our little Cessna's and the such.

[Ryan Coke]

Yeah, I know, pilots never drink, eat healthy, are never tired.

Reminds of the time I was in line in uniform getting a Starbucks at 5 am somewhere, when the lady behind me started questioning me about being concerned that I was getting a coffee. Really?! So we aren't allowed to want a little caffeine after getting up a 3:30 am? I'd think she'd be happier knowing I was going to be nice and alert up there, caffeine assisted or not!

[Ryan Coke]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

True story:

I was on a commercial flight with my father about 15 years ago. While we're taxiing to the runway, the first officer comes on the intercom and does the usual pre-flight spiel in his best Chuck Yeager accent ("We'll be cruising at 37,000 feet, weather conditions are good, we anticipate to be on the ground at our destination on time, blah blah blah..."). He ends his speech with, "On behalf of Captain Stall and the rest of the crew, we thank you for choosing us today and wish you a relaxing and enjoyable flight." I look at my dad, he looks at me, and we both burst into laughter. I said to him, "Well, I suppose it's a better name than Captain Unrecoverable Spin."

Nice. I actually lol'd.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/dru...990/story.html

Flying and liquor don't mix.

That's what a pair of Ontario men learned Monday when an Air Canada flight they were on from Toronto to Beijing had to make a landing at Vancouver International Airport after they became drunk and unruly, Richmond RCMP Cpl. Sherrdean Turley said today in a press release.

Richmond RCMP received a report around 6:30 p.m. Monday that the flight was being diverted to Vancouver "after two unruly passengers had to be restrained by the airline crew," Turley said in a press release. "Upon touchdown, RCMP officers boarded the flight and escorted the two passengers off the plane. Both were arrested and held for court the next morning."

Have any of the pilots here ever had to divert their plane because of jackasses like this?

[MRCboicgy]

Captain Oveur: You ever been in a cockpit before?
Joey: No sir, I've never been up in a plane before.
Captain Oveur: You ever seen a grown man naked?


In bad taste in light of PSU?

[sclitheroe]

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

So basically using a component of your lift to counteract some of the x-wind?

Correct, that's a side slip. There is also a forward slip, which is where you drop one wing and use the rudder to point the nose away from the side you lowered the wing, so that the aircraft continues to move along the same forward path, but nose askew, with greatly increased drag (imagine a power drift in a car, more or less), which is used to drop altitude quickly.

[Bigtime]

Airbus has an A320 undergoing flight tests with the new Sharklets in place of the old wingtip fences:


Airbus A320-211 Sharklets F-WWBA (msn 001) (Sharklets - hunting down fuel burn) TLS (Clement Alloing) by Airliners Gallery, on Flickr

Originally Posted by Airbus

Sharklets are around 2.5 metres tall and will replace the aircraft’s current wingtip fence. Offered as an option on new-build aircraft, Sharklets have been specially designed for the Airbus A320 Family to reduce fuel burn by up to an additional 3.5 percent, corresponding to an annual CO2 reduction of around 700 tonnes per aircraft. This reduction is equivalent to the CO2 produced by around 200 cars annually. The wingtip devices will also enhance the aircraft’s performance.

[KelVarnsen]

I love the shark teeth painted on fuselage.

[chalms04]

Design your own 787 livery:

https://designyourown.newairplane.com/

[Bigtime]

Afterburner engaged:

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Currently listening to a lecture from the head of Air Canada's labour and employment law division.

As sad as this sounds, I feel like I've died and gone to Heaven

[FLAME ENVY]

For those who like aerobatic aircraft. Here are some aircraft photo's from our competition which was held in Cutbank, Montana in July. The second contest making up the "Can-Am" challenge was held in Rocky Mountain House in September. I fly the Red and White Super D (C-FTZT) but am currently transitioning to a Pitt's S-1S. Most of the Canadian registered aircraft are based at YBW or YRM.


http://s932.photobucket.com/albums/a...view=slideshow

[Bigtime]

The Super Decathalon looks like a lot of fun. The only taildragger time I had was in a Citabria with Doug Jenkins (did you know him? hell of a pilot) doing some extreme unusual attitudes/recoveries and aerobatics at the beginning of my instructor rating.

I also remember Jersey (sp?) who had the Extra 300, I never went up with him but one of my buddies I trained with went for a ride, almost puked his guts out with the way he threw that thing around the sky.

I really loved flying around in that Citabria, it climbed like a pig (just find a thermal!) but I enjoyed the pure stick and rudder flying that it was all about. I think we should teach all new pilots on a taildragger, because I could even see how the Cessna's and Katana's had made my coordination a little sloppy.