Board to decide bus beheader's fate

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

From which university did you receive your doctorate degree in psychiatry and/or neuroscience? How many years of professional experience do you have working with mental health patients?

What does that have to do with this discussion? You know the answer so why ask?

[Fozzie_DeBear]

Yeah...I'm with Erick on this one.

His ability to self-regulate is the key here...he should be placed in psychiatric care forever

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

What does that have to do with this discussion? You know the answer so why ask?

I am in absolutely no position to make a judgement concerning Li's ability to leave the institution unescorted. I lack expertise in the field of mental health, and I have had no involvement in his case in any capacity whatsoever. Just like you.

The difference between you and me, apparently, is that I defer judgement to those people who actually do have the relevant knowledge and professional experience. The team of mental health experts treating Li have indicated that he is progressing as a patient and has reached the point where he can have a small amount of additional freedom. The prosecutor reviewing the case, whose job it is to ensure that Li does not pose a danger to the public, agrees with their assessment. How can you possibly claim to know better than them? You're no more qualified to comment on whether or not Li should be permitted 30 minute unescorted walks than Jenny McCarthy is to comment on vaccinations.

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by Dion

As long as Li is under the care of a doctor and the place he is living he won't get that choice to come off his meds. If he resists and says no then I suspect his unescorted trips would be revolked and he would go back to living in that facility 24/7.

If he should ever get a full release then I would start to worry and I hope to God it never comes to that.

I don't want my tax money spent on taking care of this guy. The solution you are describing requires money.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

I don't want my tax money spent on taking care of this guy. The solution you are describing requires money.

Any situation costs tax money. In fact, I wonder why you think sticking him in gen pop would be so much cheaper. Do you have statistics on that?

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by Daradon

Any situation costs tax money. In fact, I wonder why you think sticking him in gen pop would be so much cheaper. Do you have statistics on that?

I have made several posts on this subject. I would prefer less money spent on him, in fact the minimum, as long as he is locked away from us. I also argue that jails should run on smaller budgets, but that is a different thread, and no I won't produce statistics on that. I have no clue what is cheaper, but I can guarantee the general public is safe from him while he is locked away. I can't say the same for him to be managed directly by a team of professionals while he is getting day passes. Any money spent on him should be locking him up. This guy, as sad as this is for both parties, is a bad investment.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

I have made several posts on this subject. I would prefer less money spent on him, in fact the minimum, as long as he is locked away from us. I also argue that jails should run on smaller budgets, but that is a different thread, and no I won't produce statistics on that. I have no clue what is cheaper, but I can guarantee the general public is safe from him while he is locked away. I can't say the same for him to be managed directly by a team of professionals while he is getting day passes. Any money spent on him should be locking him up. This guy, as sad as this is for both parties, is a bad investment.

That may be your opinion and you're welcome to it, but it doesn't make any sense. It's not an option. Prisoners don't get budgets based on the severity of their crimes.

Secondly, generally the higher the security level a prisoner has, the more it costs, so the current option could actually be cheaper.

I understand if you feel weird paying for a criminal, that's a normal thing, but the argument you are making (spend less on him) makes no sense and has no basis in reality. It's an irrelevant argument. There is no such thing as 'the minimum' when it comes to jailing criminals. It is what it is.

[Yakbutter]

I'm not against this person being released into the community someday. It just seems like not enough time has passed since the incident, to tell if this person is ready to start living in the community again. I don't know exactly how long he should be institutionalized until this should start happening, 10 years at least?

I'm not sure what the law says about keeping people locked up who have been deemed not criminally responsible, maybe the authorities don't have the grounds to keep him anymore. Who knows. I know I don't want to be standing infront of him in line at the grocery store.

[hesh329]

Unfortunately there is no perfect solution. It is a horrible thing that happened and no matter what things cannot be changed. Personally I would hope that he is properly rehabilitated and slowly integrated into society with constant monitoring of his medicine intake with blood test and him having to see a psychologist for the rest of his life. In the end he obviously was not in control and no one around him saw the problems (which is another problem lots of people who don't know what to look for, myself included). I think a lot of people are asking rational questions and viewing it from a rational perspective, while Vincent Li was not in a position to be rational.

As for locking him away or executing him. Here is a moral question. If this was a 12 year old kid who did something like this what would you do? Obviously as many have pointed out he cannot be "cured" only treated and there are never any guarantees. Would you say that a child should be locked away forever because you cannot guarantee anyone safety.

Like i said its a difficult situation and I wouldn't envy those having to make these decisions.

[Azure]

Jails don't need to run on smaller budgets. We just need to quit throwing everyone who commits a minor offense into jail.

As for the guy this thread is about, it is all based on his ability to regulate his 'issues.' I don't understand the subject that much, but I don't think he should be allowed back into society at any rate unless he has proven consistent behavior to regulate his problems. That might take years.

Lots of people say we shouldn't waste tax dollars on this kind of stuff, but we're not wasting anything. Being able to work with this guy and his issues will provide a great learning experience for the people involved and might help prevent a problem further on down the road.

Our tax dollars are wasted when we have archaic crime laws in place that unnecessarily throw people into prison.

[flamesfan1297]

If he ever gets away on one of these unescorted times, lets all pray that he catches a taxi or a train, anything but a bus... sorry couldn't help myself.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by Coys1882

Every single day violent offenders, who are not mentally ill, are released into society after serving their 'time out'

Some are murderers and sexual predators - these guys don't even have the excuse of being schizophrenic - most of which receive no treatment while in jail. I find that to be more alarming than this guy to be honest.

Well, as long as other f'd up violent offenders are being released, we better make sure to release this guy. Now that we've got his fingerprints in the database, there's no way he'll get very far next time he chops off someone's head with a knife, and then taunts onlookers...with someone's severed head.
There's a doctor out there that is making sure he takes his anti-decapitation meds.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by 4X4

Well, as long as other f'd up violent offenders are being released, we better make sure to release this guy. Now that we've got his fingerprints in the database, there's no way he'll get very far next time he chops off someone's head with a knife, and then taunts onlookers...with someone's severed head.
There's a doctor out there that is making sure he takes his anti-decapitation meds.

You forgot the eating pieces of his heart part. Never forget the eating pieces of his heart part.

It really is the part that truly makes him completely fit for release.

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by Daradon

That may be your opinion and you're welcome to it, but it doesn't make any sense. It's not an option. Prisoners don't get budgets based on the severity of their crimes.

Secondly, generally the higher the security level a prisoner has, the more it costs, so the current option could actually be cheaper.

I understand if you feel weird paying for a criminal, that's a normal thing, but the argument you are making (spend less on him) makes no sense and has no basis in reality. It's an irrelevant argument. There is no such thing as 'the minimum' when it comes to jailing criminals. It is what it is.

You are making some big stretches from my post. As others have said, we should limit who goes to jail. Secondly, types of programs in jails should be dependent on the crime, I don't know why you take a stance that it shouldn't. Commit a heinous crime? Minimilized jail program. Minimal as in zero attempt at any sort of rehab since they are not getting out (if I had a say).

Obviously this is not our current system, I am just expressing what I would like to see. As the guy footing the bill I like excersizing my right to complain!

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by hesh329

In the end he obviously was not in control and no one around him saw the problems

From what I understand, there was a history of problems, but they clearly did not indicate anything resembling the murder.

[Erick Estrada]

Medical experts determined Jayme Pakieka was "normal" after threatening to kill his neighbour in 2009. It appears they were wrong. Very, very, wrong. Sure would suck if some of the bleeding heart people in this thread had a relative working in that Edmonton warehouse because it's people like you endorsing these nut jobs being released into society because an "expert" rolled the dice on them. I guess it's all good as long as you aren't affected in any way.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Medical experts determined Jayme Pakieka was "normal" after threatening to kill his neighbour in 2009. It appears they were wrong. Very, very, wrong. Sure would suck if some of the bleeding heart people in this thread had a relative working in that Edmonton warehouse because it's people like you endorsing these nut jobs being released into society because an "expert" rolled the dice on them. I guess it's all good as long as you aren't affected in any way.

The police haven't released any information as to the "motive or why he did it" but for whatever reason you felt it necessary to lob insults in the direction of a few people.

Btw I find this comment quite interesting. Maybe it wasn't mental illness as you would like to believe. Maybe he got tired of all the bullying and snapped. That said we'll have to wait for the truth before we jump to conclusions on this guy.

From reddit...

bauxzaux 6 points7 points8 points 1 day ago

My friend works there and said the guy was a bit of a loner, never talked to anyone. He started getting harassed by a few guys, it's been going on for a while I guess and the managers there don't do anything except make them fill out harassment forms. So looks like he snapped and took the matter into his own hands.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Edmonton/com...pts_at_a_west/

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Medical experts determined Jayme Pakieka was "normal" after threatening to kill his neighbour in 2009. It appears they were wrong. Very, very, wrong. Sure would suck if some of the bleeding heart people in this thread had a relative working in that Edmonton warehouse because it's people like you endorsing these nut jobs being released into society because an "expert" rolled the dice on them. I guess it's all good as long as you aren't affected in any way.

I missed the part where Jayme had a mental illness that was controllable with medication. I haven't been scouring the net for more info though, so would appreciate you posting the link.

TIA

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by Rathji

I missed the part where Jayme had a mental illness that was controllable with medication. I haven't been scouring the net for more info though, so would appreciate you posting the link.

TIA

Regarding mental illness and multiple posts I have made, if the VAST majority of us do not resort to stabbing people at work, than I would assume this guy has mental illness? If he cannot control himself, than to me he has no business being free.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

Regarding mental illness and multiple posts I have made, if the VAST majority of us do not resort to stabbing people at work, than I would assume this guy has mental illness? If he cannot control himself, than to me he has no business being free.

Why would you assume as opposed to waiting for all the facts of the case to come out? People kill for a variety of reasons and it's not just because of mental illness.