The Blue Jays: 2009 Season Thread

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by HitterD

JP is the Kevin Lowe of MLB. It's pretty bad

That's hitting below the belt.

[Machiavelli]

Well, was he asked? What was he supposed to say?

I don't particularly like JP, but it's not like he just came out and said that (or did he?)

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by Machiavelli

Well, was he asked? What was he supposed to say?

"We have no interest in trading Doc at this time. None whatsoever. Less than none."

Originally Posted by Machiavelli

I don't particularly like JP, but it's not like he just came out and said that (or did he?)

I fault him for his honestly. He said "if we trade him" which logically leads to every baseball fan piling together their list of "garbage with value plus a prospect" trade proposals that I have to read and Doc gets asked about.

The only way this "boatload" comment makes sense is if he wants other GMs to send him proposals so he can get a feel for his value. Which, as a fan, is a nightmare.

[Machiavelli]

^ Gotcha.

[JayP]

Originally Posted by Gozer

The only way this "boatload" comment makes sense is if he wants other GMs to send him proposals so he can get a feel for his value. Which, as a fan, is a nightmare.

Why is it a nightmare? It would be hard to see Doc go, but his value to a sub-80 win Jays team is significantly less than his value to an 85 win team looking to generate 8 extra wins (or whatever his value above a replacement player would be) and put them right in the playoff mix.

It's not as if the Jays are going to get garbage in return. The going rate for a top player in the trade market is basically a can't miss prospect that's MLB ready as well as 2-3 more other good prospects.

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by JayP

Why is it a nightmare? It would be hard to see Doc go, but his value to a sub-80 win Jays team is significantly less than his value to an 85 win team looking to generate 8 extra wins (or whatever his value above a replacement player would be) and put them right in the playoff mix.

For one, as a fan I want to watch Doc pitch - record be damned..

Secondly, I think the Jays are a mid-80s type team, a team that should be competing for the playoffs.

Thirdly, you never "win" a trade when you're trading away the best player in the league.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Gaston is the difference maker. If you look at his record since he took over, the Jays are equal to or better than the Yanks and Sox.

I completely agree. Baseball may not be the most strategic sport, coaching-wise, but Gaston has done a great job with using pitchers. Coaching absolutely makes a difference. How many times have you had a hardass boss and hated going to work to deal with him/her? Sports aren't much different and he seems like a guy who lets people do their thing and motivates them. Hopefully they maintain their looseness.

[Gozer]

I like that Cito doesn't give a gee-whiz about the numbers or the right move on paper (whereas Gibby would do so obsessively) - Cito just says "you're a pro ball player, go play ball."

[JayP]

Originally Posted by Gozer

For one, as a fan I want to watch Doc pitch - record be damned..

It's easy to say that, but I guarantee the Jays get better ratings/attendance as an 85 win team without Doc than a 75 win team with Doc.

Secondly, I think the Jays are a mid-80s type team, a team that should be competing for the playoffs.

That's probably a fair assessment and basically the most important evaluation is any discussion of trading Halladay. It really depends on what the Jays can do the rest of the way. If they can prove themselves to be an 80-85 win team this season, adding Marcum and McGowan could easily be 12 wins added to the team (not to mention the progression of Lind and Snider). But if the Jays fall off the map this season, Doc's value to the Jays drops off dramatically. An elite player is worth a lot more to a playoff contending team than a mid-70's win team.

Thirdly, you never "win" a trade when you're trading away the best player in the league.

That's a pretty simplistic view of things. It's pretty easy to win any trade for Halladay if the right deal is made. Getting a can't miss prospect at shortstop who develops into a perrenial all-star easily has more value than Doc (much cheaper and more good years ahead of him)

[JayP]

Originally Posted by Gozer

I like that Cito doesn't give a gee-whiz about the numbers or the right move on paper (whereas Gibby would do so obsessively) - Cito just says "you're a pro ball player, go play ball."

Gibbons definitely wasn't smart about making the right moves on paper. Very few MLB managers are (seeing how many actually value the closer role and the 3-run save).

[oxygen]

Why is it that SNW is showing an Orioles/Rays game, I can understand a Yankees or Red Sox game, but I doubt there are many diehard Orioles or Rays fans in the west. Looks like we're missing a great pitching performance by Tallet. Too bad the game tomorrow is in the afternoon, it'd be nice to see Cecil pitch.

[Machiavelli]

Gah! Tallet just gave up his first hit of the game....6 and 1/3 innings in.

[ricoFlame]

the anti-clutch just clutched up to put the jays back in the lead.

[Pagal4321]

Let's go Downs, shut er down again!!

[ricoFlame]

frick. indians tie it up in the 9th.

[Machiavelli]

League has to keep that 0-2 pitch waaaaay down.

[Pagal4321]

Can anyone fill me in as to why Downs wasn't used????

[Machiavelli]

The better question is why wasn't Frasor used in the ninth? He was warmed up and everything.

Cito trying to milk too much out of one pitcher. League isn't a two-inning guy.

[Pagal4321]

League is AT BEST a one inning guy....ugh.

[oxygen]

Originally Posted by Pagal4321

Can anyone fill me in as to why Downs wasn't used????

I think Downs pitched the last 3 games. Should have put in Frasor, he's had experience closing and he's been great so far this season