The Blue Jays Thread.

[RedHot25]

Originally Posted by habernac

I'm finally going to see the Jays live in Seattle next month! I get to see the Red Sox on the Wednesday and the Jays on Friday. Can't wait!

Have you been to Safeco Field before, habernac? It is a pretty sweet stadium.

[habernac]

first time, looking forward to it! I've been to Vet stadium in Philly (now a parking lot) Camden in Baltimore and Ameriquest in Arlington.

[RedHot25]

alright, I'm jealous about the other stadiums you have been to. But safeco is nice, good times. you'll enjoy it.

[IHATEOILERS]

Originally Posted by flames_1987

For someone who's not a huge fan of JP's, the Hillenbrand for Accardo deal sure looks like a steal now. One can only think what a healthy Brandon League and BJ Ryan what this bullpen could be

Its too painful to think what this team could potentially have been. Man this year was supposed to be our year. Oh well, hope McGowan pitches well tonight. At least the young guys are getting a chance to pitch.

[ricoFlame]

Originally Posted by IHATEOILERS

Man this year was supposed to be our year. Oh well, hope McGowan pitches well tonight. At least the young guys are getting a chance to pitch.

Hey now, only 4 games below .500. plenty of season left!

[habernac]

Halladay recovery ahead of schedule:

http://toronto.bluejays.mlb.com/news...=.jsp&c_id=tor

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by IHATEOILERS

Its too painful to think what this team could potentially have been. Man this year was supposed to be our year. Oh well, hope McGowan pitches well tonight. At least the young guys are getting a chance to pitch.

Would Johnson, Zaun and a complete Bullpen really have netted us around 11 more wins by this point in time?

I'm not sure about that. Because the biggest issue has been starting pitching and some pretty anemic offense from guys who haven't been injured.

As well, I'm not completely sure of the validity of this, but there was rumor that Joe Saunders from the Angels was going to be the centerpeice of a Hillenbrand deal, and Kendrick as well, depending on which rumors you believe, but Saunders was all but confirmed... and then Hillenbrand went ape, got DFA'd and threw his value in the crapper. Still, so far it has worked out ok.

[habernac]

I think the bullpen would have made a big difference, yeah. Look at how many blown saves there were with and without Ryan.

[JayP]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

Would Johnson, Zaun and a complete Bullpen really have netted us around 11 more wins by this point in time?

A healthy BJ Ryan would probably have netted us at least 5 more wins.
- 2 from the blown saves he had (that were obviously a product of his injuries)
- 3 from the blown saves by relievers before Accardo/Jannssen were given 8th/9th inning duties

In addition to that, if League and Ryan were healthy there's no reason to believe that Jannssen and Accardo wouldn't still be pitching the way they are now. Basically that would give the Jays starters a lot shorter leashes since they would have able to put a guy like Jannssen or Accardo in in the 6th and be very confident in their ability to hold the fort for Ryan/League. Also, on days where Ryan and League are unavailable (due to fatigue) the Jays could turn to Accardo and Jannssen to close things instead of guys like Fraser and Tallet. In particular I'm thinking of the night Marcum when 6 hitless innings and Fraser/Tallet let up 2 runs in 3 innings to lose it for him.

Johnson and Zaun would have given us a few more wins since they had a lot of balance to the Jays line-up. Until very recently, Lind was replacing Johnson and he's been a total bust this season (offensively and defensively). With Zaun out we have Sal Fasano in the line-up on a somewhat consistent basis and that just kills any momentum in the 7, 8, 9 spots whenever he's around.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by JayP

A healthy BJ Ryan would probably have netted us at least 5 more wins.
- 2 from the blown saves he had (that were obviously a product of his injuries)
- 3 from the blown saves by relievers before Accardo/Jannssen were given 8th/9th inning duties

In addition to that, if League and Ryan were healthy there's no reason to believe that Jannssen and Accardo wouldn't still be pitching the way they are now. Basically that would give the Jays starters a lot shorter leashes since they would have able to put a guy like Jannssen or Accardo in in the 6th and be very confident in their ability to hold the fort for Ryan/League. Also, on days where Ryan and League are unavailable (due to fatigue) the Jays could turn to Accardo and Jannssen to close things instead of guys like Fraser and Tallet. In particular I'm thinking of the night Marcum when 6 hitless innings and Fraser/Tallet let up 2 runs in 3 innings to lose it for him.

Johnson and Zaun would have given us a few more wins since they had a lot of balance to the Jays line-up. Until very recently, Lind was replacing Johnson and he's been a total bust this season (offensively and defensively). With Zaun out we have Sal Fasano in the line-up on a somewhat consistent basis and that just kills any momentum in the 7, 8, 9 spots whenever he's around.

Yeah that was around what I thought too, perhaps 5-6 extra wins because of the whole blowing games situation, but Zaun/Johnson in reality are pretty minor in terms of our total offense, as well, most of those starting pitching blunders weren't from pulling starters too late, but abysmall starts within the first few innings to put a game too far out of reach already.

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

Yeah that was around what I thought too, perhaps 5-6 extra wins because of the whole blowing games situation, but Zaun/Johnson in reality are pretty minor in terms of our total offense, as well, most of those starting pitching blunders weren't from pulling starters too late, but abysmall starts within the first few innings to put a game too far out of reach already.

How many of those abysmal starts can be attributed to the 'game' that the catcher is calling? Zaun was a master at calling a good game. Is Phillips as good?

[moon]

Originally Posted by IHATEOILERS

Its too painful to think what this team could potentially have been. Man this year was supposed to be our year.

Not to be an ass, but other than Blue Jay fans homer opinions, why was this supposed to be the Blue Jays year?

I know there are a ton of Blue Jay fans on here and they don't like to hear people cutting down the team and so I will likely get killed for this, but this team was not going to the play-offs with or without the injuries.

I wonder if these injuries aren't almost better for some fans who did believe this was the year for them as they can now blame the injuries for the season and not look at the fact that there were still issues with this team heading into the season with a heathy team.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by calculoso

How many of those abysmal starts can be attributed to the 'game' that the catcher is calling? Zaun was a master at calling a good game. Is Phillips as good?

Good question, that is one of those things that is absolutely impossible to calculate, but its impact cannot be ignored.

Then again, if you're a pitcher, you aren't a mindless drone, you should have a pretty good idea of how to think for yourself.

I know Jason Kendall in Oakland controls the game with his pitchers, and will rip into them if they shake him off and it gets hit out of the yard.

[JayP]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

Yeah that was around what I thought too, perhaps 5-6 extra wins because of the whole blowing games situation, but Zaun/Johnson in reality are pretty minor in terms of our total offense, as well, most of those starting pitching blunders weren't from pulling starters too late, but abysmall starts within the first few innings to put a game too far out of reach already.

I'd agree with that. Zaun would provide a bit of a boost in the later spots, but Phillips isn't completely useless at the plate like Fasano.

Johnson ideally makes a solid contribution to the offense, but that's mainly because of his ability to get on base. With the way the guys who would be expected to drive Johnson home are going him getting on in the lead-off spot would probably be irrelevant.

moon: I don't see why the Jays shouldn't have been considered at least playoff contenders this year. Obviously they had enough question marks (mainly at the bottom of the rotation) that there were far from a lock, but the Jays definitely had a solid shot at the playoffs (and still might).

[Trojan97]

Good game tonight.

Huge ABs off the bench from Rios. Hill & Overbay have also had good nights. Nice to see Thomas hit a jack as well hopefully this is the start of a streak for him.

The boys have really looked like a team the last few series. Can't wait til they get some guys back and make a run.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by moon

Not to be an ass, but other than Blue Jay fans homer opinions, why was this supposed to be the Blue Jays year?

I know there are a ton of Blue Jay fans on here and they don't like to hear people cutting down the team and so I will likely get killed for this, but this team was not going to the play-offs with or without the injuries.

I wonder if these injuries aren't almost better for some fans who did believe this was the year for them as they can now blame the injuries for the season and not look at the fact that there were still issues with this team heading into the season with a heathy team.

I think most people had the mindset that if everything went right, they could compete.

Things haven't not just gone right, they've gone real wrong.

But a fully healthy BJ team in my opinion still had the potential to compete for the Wild Card - probably not the East with the way Boston is looking this year.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by moon

Not to be an ass, but other than Blue Jay fans homer opinions, why was this supposed to be the Blue Jays year?

I know there are a ton of Blue Jay fans on here and they don't like to hear people cutting down the team and so I will likely get killed for this, but this team was not going to the play-offs with or without the injuries.

I wonder if these injuries aren't almost better for some fans who did believe this was the year for them as they can now blame the injuries for the season and not look at the fact that there were still issues with this team heading into the season with a heathy team.

I would challenge any fan to name a team that could stay competitive if they lost the following players to injuries basically all at the same time.....

#1 Catcher
Left Fielder
Ace Pitcher
#3 Starter
Closer
setup man.
Not to mention losing a 3rd baseman (for two weeks)
other depth pitchers....

If the Jays were even close to healthy they would of made a run at the wild card in my opinion

[Jiggy_12]

The weird thing is it was the Jays bats that were the problem during the losing streak. it wasnt the pitching. It was Wells, Overbay, Thomas, and Rios shating the bed game after game.

The injuries really havent killed the team as much as they could have. the team folded with the players that were playing.

IMO the most costly injury was RJ, that guy is the sparkplug for the entire team.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Jiggy_12

The weird thing is it was the Jays bats that were the problem during the losing streak. it wasnt the pitching. It was Wells, Overbay, Thomas, and Rios shating the bed game after game.

The injuries really havent killed the team as much as they could have. the team folded with the players that were playing.

IMO the most costly injury was RJ, that guy is the sparkplug for the entire team.

I agree, but the rest of the injuries just add to the problem. For example a healthly BJ Ryan and healthly Brandon League would of made a huge difference. As for RJ I agree on that one, Jays do not have a hitter that is effective in the leadoff spot other than Reed in my opinion.

With the vast amount of injuries there is no way this team will pull together a long win streak which is needed to make them competitive. There just is not enough Pitching.

There have been some nice surprises for example Janssen, Marcum as a Starter and Accardo as the new closer have all been great in their new roles.

[CaramonLS]

Apparently on WWJP, when asked if he would consider drafting a pitcher from High School, JP answered with a resounding "NO", as well, he added he will not draft any Boras clients.

Draw your own conclusions from this, but really... this is a pretty sad way to run an organization. Regardless of whether you believe HS pitchers have better upside than College pitchers, excluding half of the pitching talent pool, just based on principle is a really awful philosophy to pursue.

I'm even against his anti-Boras stratagy, I mean Boras does make Don Meehan look like a p*ssy, but really, if it means drafting the BPA, and paying a little more for it, I think you simply have to do it.

Heck, Stephen Drew dropped 14 or 15 spots one year and Matt Bush (both were ShortStops), the inferior prospect who would sign for cheap, was drafted first overall (even though Drew was clearly the superior player. Now Stephen Drew looks like an absolute stud and possible cornerstone for Arizona at such a young age, where Matt Bush is struggling in A ball, with already millions in signing bonuses completely wasted on him.