Worst team in the league - Are we "OK" with it?

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by kehatch

Conroy should have been trading select veterans this summer and last deadline. He should have been weaponizing our cap space. He should have been trimming the fat after the Farabee and Frost acquisition. Not trying to "take a big swing" to add a mid 20s D and telling other teams we weren't taking calls on our veterans.

Now we have a bloated roster, a predictabley bad team, and the veterans we will now try and trade will likely have diminished value.

It will take years to figure out how bad of a miss not weaponizing the cap space to get a 5th round pick from Montreal to take on Price’s contract will be. There were almost no other trades where people were dumping contracts, but missing that 5th round pick could really screw the rebuild.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

If you look at a team like Chicago, they already had guys like Bolland, Byfuglien, Brouwer, Keith, Seabrook and quite a few others before they dropped in Toews and Kane.

Lots of teams that successfully rebuild have a group of 2nd/3rd line guys already playing in the system that work well then add the final touches.

The Flames currently have a group of guys like that (Coronato, Gridin, Honzek etc) that look to be middle of the lineup guys when the Flames are good.

Just need to wait to get the stars they need to flesh out the roster.

Only way to reliably do that, is to not play good hockey. You can fluke out with a Fleury or Gaudreau every once in a while. You can't rely on that happening though.

Keith and Seabrook were Olympic calibre players. Borland was as good a shut down centre as existed at the time. They also had Sharp. They are head and shoulders better than Coronato and some untested rookies getting their first taste of the NHL.

[Goriders]

Well. 3 or 4 more losses via scoring 1 goal a game should put us into next year country. At which point I would assume that the garage sale will start. Trickiest part might be staying above the cap floor. They’ll have to have some semi legit NHLers to stay above it.

You dump Andersson and Kadri and you’re pretty much at the floor. There’s no way Huberdeau can leave. If you also want to part out Coleman we’re going to have to take salary back.

Those are probably our last temaining vets with value assuming Weegar, Backlund and Huberdeau aren’t going anywhere. Better start hitting on the draftpicks you get back because the carcass will be picked clean next year.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Keith and Seabrook were Olympic calibre players. Borland was as good a shut down centre as existed at the time. They also had Sharp. They are head and shoulders better than Coronato and some untested rookies getting their first taste of the NHL.

Duncan Keith had 29 points the year Kane was drafted. Sharp had 35 points. Bolland played in the AHL that year. He may have been a hell of an AHL player (was not tracking him at the time) but he only played 1 NHL game. Not exactly elite any of them.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Duncan Keith had 29 points the year Kane was drafted. Sharp had 35 points. Bolland played in the AHL that year. He may have been a hell of an AHL player (was not tracking him at the time) but he only played 1 NHL game. Not exactly elite any of them.

You're doing it wrong. You see, none of the Flames' players will ever get better than they are now, because Flames. If Sharp had been on the Flames, he would never have topped 35 points in his entire career, because Murray Edwards is a doo-doo head who wants to make the fans suffer and has the power to do stuff like that.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by browntrout

Look I don't like some of the moves Conroy made as well, I thought he should have waited with Wolf, maybe given it another 6 months to see if he can continue with his great goaltending into his third year, but at the end of the day, they get a starting goaltender signed for 8 years, ok work.

The Backlund contract IMO raised eyebrows, seems like a retirement contract to me, but given where the team is, it's really nothing in the grand scheme of things.

To me the most important theme is acquiring draft capital, the team needs to find a diamond in the rough, and they need to take as many shots as they can, because statistically most will never even play in the NHL.

The real issue is draft position, the team needs 2-3 years of top 5 picks and they need them in a hurry, because it takes 3-5 years for most of those pics to develop

They are in year 3 of the rebuild and I can easily see it taking at least another 5 years before the team becomes competitive.

This is gonna age so bad

[vilzeh]

Originally Posted by dino7c

This is gonna age so bad

I hope so, because right now Wolf is like dead last in goaltending statistics.

Yeah yeah, he's promising, the team is bad, blablabla.

I just hope he will rise.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Duncan Keith had 29 points the year Kane was drafted. Sharp had 35 points. Bolland played in the AHL that year. He may have been a hell of an AHL player (was not tracking him at the time) but he only played 1 NHL game. Not exactly elite any of them.

Keith became one of the best dmen of his generation. Seabrook a perennial all star. I'm talking about what those players became. I guess if Hunter B becomes a HOF player you might be right.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by vilzeh

I hope so, because right now Wolf is like dead last in goaltending statistics.

Yeah yeah, he's promising, the team is bad, blablabla.

I just hope he will rise.

With the heightened expectations on the team and Wolf getting lifelong financial security and the pressures of a big extension I think a lot of what is happening to the team and Wolf is predictable. Last year a lot went right for the team and this year it seems like the opposite. They are not getting the bounces and can’t score at all which adds to the pressure for Wolf.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Keith and Seabrook were Olympic calibre players. Borland was as good a shut down centre as existed at the time. They also had Sharp. They are head and shoulders better than Coronato and some untested rookies getting their first taste of the NHL.

The thing about Chicago is they had a number of prospects that were able to develop before they dropped the couple high first rounders into the mix. the year Kane came in as a rookie (they missed the playoffs still), the team had a number of players 22-24 making that step. Kane 19, Towes 19, Byfuglien 22, Seabrook 22, Bolland 21, Ladd 22, Versteeg 21, Crawford 23 (not the starter yet), Keith 24. Nine players under 25 that were pretty important in future runs. I think the Flames still need that extra year or so for some of the picks from the last few drafts to be ready to make the jump. The key is what sort of player do they add this year. If in a couple years we have nine players in that 25 range and under, they should be in good shape.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Keith became one of the best dmen of his generation. Seabrook a perennial all star. I'm talking about what those players became. I guess if Hunter B becomes a HOF player you might be right.

Oh, I thought when you you said they were head and shoulders better you meant at the time that they drafted Kane. But what you mean is that with hindsight they were head and shoulders better at the end of their careers than what our 19-23 year old players are right now. That is correct. I thought you were comparing apples to apples, but it was not really that type of comparison.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by kehatch

Honestly, the idea that Conroy is rebuilding should have died with the fact that he has done nearly nothing in 15+ months. The one thing he tried to do was add. But I agree people aren't going to agree.

Really? Look at he signed to be backup goalie.

Vets that can be realistically traded - I would argue he is simply waiting for max value. Not saying he shouldn't have been more aggressive or that he will end up with great value but judging by actions alone this is a GM who is letting his team lose.

[FlamesNightmare]

I'm on the Team Tank band-wagon. Just right off the season, win games here and there. Get the best possible odds in the draft lottery. And get some nice draft picks!

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by kehatch

Honestly, the idea that Conroy is rebuilding should have died with the fact that he has done nearly nothing in 15+ months. The one thing he tried to do was add. But I agree people aren't going to agree.

I would argue that the fact that he has 'done nearly nothing' is clear evidence that he IS rebuilding. Teams that want to compete try to improve - you move forward or you are losing ground. A team that is doing nothing is a team that is heading downward in the standings.

[Mattitude]

That's on the team, not him. There's going to be some inevitable growing pains when you're rebuilding a team. I just hope people don't dump on him too hard when the team is in their dip for the foreseeable future.

Originally Posted by vilzeh

I hope so, because right now Wolf is like dead last in goaltending statistics.

Yeah yeah, he's promising, the team is bad, blablabla.

I just hope he will rise.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by vilzeh

I hope so, because right now Wolf is like dead last in goaltending statistics.

Yeah yeah, he's promising, the team is bad, blablabla.

I just hope he will rise.

They are playing top team after top team...I think his numbers will stabilize when it gets back to normal.

they they have played 7 games
Oilers, Vegas, Jets have been four of them...probably the highest top end offensive players in the league.
Add the Vancouver back to back which in hindsight wasn't a good idea.

Mix in some Sabres, Preds, Kings ect. and the goalie stats probably start to look a lot better.

Besides the contract starts next year...8M for Wolf will age very well, your post will not

[Bunk]

The rebuild should have begun the second it was clear Gaudreau was not signing an extension the moment he was eligible.

Imagine the draft capital that could have been acquired from various players of value. Now, forced into a rebuild having squandered that asset potential it rate limits the number of high end players really can be accumulated. So I worry we bottom out, and are only really able to bounce back up to the middle of the pack rather than true contention.

But all that requires an owner committed to that type of process with fans.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Bunk

The rebuild should have begun the second it was clear Gaudreau was not signing an extension the moment he was eligible.

Imagine the draft capital that could have been acquired from various players of value. Now, forced into a rebuild having squandered that asset potential it rate limits the number of high end players really can be accumulated. So I worry we bottom out, and are only really able to bounce back up to the middle of the pack rather than true contention.

But all that requires an owner committed to that type of process with fans.

He was coming off a bad season...the Flames then went on to a division title and were picked by many as contenders

hindsight is nice but Gaudreau's value wasn't very high at the time...he also had some trade protection

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Bunk

The rebuild should have begun the second it was clear Gaudreau was not signing an extension the moment he was eligible.

Imagine the draft capital that could have been acquired from various players of value. Now, forced into a rebuild having squandered that asset potential it rate limits the number of high end players really can be accumulated. So I worry we bottom out, and are only really able to bounce back up to the middle of the pack rather than true contention.

But all that requires an owner committed to that type of process with fans.

I don't think it was clear that Gaudreau wasn't re-signing, until he actually didn't. Prior to that it seemed like it was a money issue. Gaudreau made a large demand, the team said now, then the team caved, but Gaudreau has a last minute change of heart following a discussion with his family.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I would argue that the fact that he has 'done nearly nothing' is clear evidence that he IS rebuilding. Teams that want to compete try to improve - you move forward or you are losing ground. A team that is doing nothing is a team that is heading downward in the standings.

Not a single UFA player signed this offseason save for Nick Cicek who they signed primarily to play in the AHL. The Flames basically didn't even participate in free agency this offseason and I can't recall that ever happening. Clearly not a team that was hell bent on improving over last season.