Hart, McLeod, Dube, Foote, Formenton charged with sexual assault

[dammage79]

Doesn't matter. You think ppl being accused of something aren't under mental durress? That ppl don't mentally break when under the purview of investigation or under threat of litigation? All under the public eye on top of that. Seems fairly reasonable to me to call it mental health.

[mile]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1750242891254128853

[Vedder]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Were leaves of absences for mental health really a thing before Kylington?

Oliver and the Flames have since been public about it, but it seems like it paved the way to begin with.

True, I’m just saying that if they had an inkling it was related to the incident, then they could and should have been more general about the reason for the leave.

My hope is that it’s truly mental health, and Dube isn’t implicated, but I think the Flames stepped in one here and will have a lot of tough questions to answer.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by DJones

Ya this idea that we are going to live in a world with zero risk is absurd.

I think everyone has done something stupid, like walk home alone in sketchy areas. It's not my fault that I almost got bear maced but at the same time I'm not going to do that again.

Agreed. But Kel ignored my preface and the following sentence just to quote one line and say I’m victim blaming. It’s purposely a misleading and mean spirited thing to do to imply I advocate for this nonsense.

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by cam_calderon

Yeah, perhaps that was a perceived security blanket for the woman that they were hockey players in town for a gala. By the time they left the bar she was not in any condition to make a judgement on that - not a criticism, just a fact.

The lack of ability to provide consent = NO CONSENT GIVEN.
That's on the players, not the woman involved.

[Five-hole]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Different country, different legal system. Likely you're right, but I would be very shy about saying ‘absolutely’.

I'm speculating, but I'd be very surprised if that is true. My money would be on NHL player contracts all containing similar boilerplate which would include not only termination provisions (as it would be unfair if different clubs or even players operated under different termination provisions) but also a governing law clause, all nominating the same place (and my money would be on New York).

[KelVarnsen]

Originally Posted by bluejays

Agreed. But Kel ignored my preface and the following sentence just to quote one line and say I’m victim blaming. It’s purposely a misleading and mean spirited thing to do to imply I advocate for this nonsense.

Maybe you shouldn't have put yourself in that situation then

[nfotiu]

The other teams all went with general statements. But the charges were close to being public knowledge by then. It's possible Dube disclosed his issue to Flames mental health professionals that were bound by confidentially, and the Flames didn't know charges were imminent. This isn't a result of a league investigation and they wouldn't have advanced notice of legal charges.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

The other teams all went with general statements. But the charges were close to being public knowledge by then. It's possible Dube disclosed his issue to Flames mental health professionals that were bound by confidentially, and the Flames didn't know charges were imminent. This isn't a result of a league investigation and they wouldn't have advanced notice of legal charges.

From what I've heard, prominent members in the media have known the exact names for a while but have been waiting for the shoe to drop before naming them.

If Dube is involved, it is a certainty that the Flames knew the charges were coming soon.

From any perspective, it is really disappointing.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by mile

https://twitter.com/user/status/1750242891254128853

Who?

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by KelVarnsen

Maybe you shouldn't have put yourself in that situation then

No. You willfully ignored what I wrote before and after. You’re purposely doing that an it’s mean spirited and misleading. You know what you’re doing but purposely painting someone in an untruthful light. It’s simply mean spirited.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Not surprised by this. Something has obviously been up for a while and the sudden step away from the team was sketchy. I hate the Flames framed it as a leave for mental health reasons. It’s the reason why I didn’t jump in and comment on the Dube announcement as something just didn’t feel right. The Flames are going to have some explaining to do. Framing this as mental health is a true insult to those fighting with actual mental health issues. Guilt from previous action and fear of criminal prosecution shouldn’t be lumped in with mental health issues.

The hits keep coming for this team. Thought it was bad when Roni was accused of sexual assault, but now Dube is implicated in gang rape? Yikes. What is going on?

[Vedder]

Plus our assistant GM is well connected at hockey Canada, agents and lawyers were involved. Too many in the know to keep a lid on it. The Flames would either be willfully blind or incompetent not to see this coming.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

From what I've heard, prominent members in the media have known the exact names for a while but have been waiting for the shoe to drop before naming them.

If Dube is involved, it is a certainty that the Flames knew the charges were coming soon.

From any perspective, it is really disappointing.

If the Flames knew for sure this was imminent the reason for the leave and put out a statement like they did, then that's pretty dumb.

[Icantwhisper]

Originally Posted by bluejays

No. You willfully ignored what I wrote before and after. You’re purposely doing that an it’s mean spirited and misleading. You know what you’re doing but purposely painting someone in an untruthful light. It’s simply mean spirited.

I feel like you missed the irony

[jaydub74]

As someone else stated, its also possible the Dube was exhibiting signs of mental health issues (panic attacks and anxiety) while in the presence of Flames staff and was deemed unfit based on his mental health. There are any number of reasons the Flames made the mental health announcement, its unlikely we'll ever get the full details.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Who?

Boris Katchouk

[Torture]

Originally Posted by Willi Plett

Even if a player was accused #1 and later deemed (let’s call it) the most guilty by a court of law, an NHL team would not be able to take any action without proof of guilt.

IAMNAL but generally in employment and workplace investigations the standard for discipline/termination is a 'balance of probabilities', not 'beyond a reasonable doubt'.
So even if you do not have a guilty verdict, you may still have grounds to take action.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

From what I've heard, prominent members in the media have known the exact names for a while but have been waiting for the shoe to drop before naming them.

If Dube is involved, it is a certainty that the Flames knew the charges were coming soon.

From any perspective, it is really disappointing.

I don’t see that as a certainty at all. They’re his employer and have no involvement with the London Police.

There’s nothing to suggest they would know anything beyond what Dube and his agent have told them, or what is publicly available information.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I don’t see that as a certainty at all. They’re his employer and have no involvement with the London Police.

There’s nothing to suggest they would know anything beyond what Dube and his agent have told them, or what is publicly available information.

One (I would consider very reliable) poster in this thread said they heard the news about Dube and Hart was about to drop.

There is absolutely zero chance the Flames organization wouldn't have this intel.

I still don't think that means the Flames necessarily acted wrongly. They may have been bound to speak on it from a mental health aspect if the player requested it.