Canmore population to double? Legal battle?

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Not to mention it's absolutely perplexing why Fuzz thinks the kids raised there should have some sort of priority position in buying real estate at a discount from market value. That's not even a thing anywhere in the world. It's super dumb, honestly. Who fkn cares if they can or can't. Real estate - in Canada - goes to the person with the budget to buy what something is worth.

Canmore people think they should get special treatment, though. Totally weird.

They do get a discount, in effect. Their parents have vast amounts of equity that they can either leverage or realize via downgrading to provide their children with massive down payments and/or inheritance. This is the norm in Vancouver. You see boomer parents with a house worth $2-3,000,000. They withdraw $500k to give their kids the means to buy in.

If you go that route you end up indebted to you parents who will keep you close to their detached property in an overcrowded condo, while they hold over your head how much of their "earned" money they gave you.

Fun times. And no I don't think anyone is owed anything. The housing crisis/generational wealth gap is a major issue though. It is the root of all housing issues in Canada (in combination with economic/developer issues limiting supply). Building higher density housing, is not the cause of our housing crisis.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

At least I'm consistent, eh

Are you sure your understanding of history has come from reliable narrators?

Developers failing to follow through on the grand visions they present is not a unique problem. It's up to councils and planning depts to include teeth in their codes and approval proccesses.

As for the outsiders, I've already mentioned that Spring Creek is an inside job. That's gotta the most central big development by far.


Do you have any ideas how things could be better? Maybe some sort of fairly aggressive vacancy tax? Everyone has to report to a checkpoint and show their papers every other Wednesday? (I'm only half joking)

So the "outsiders" I meant were developers. Council was well known to be on the take from developers at the time, so their wasn't protection from them.


I'm not against development or expansion. One of the big problems is it is a small valley, and they gave so much of it to golf courses that serve so few. Does Silvertip paying anything close to the amount of taxes that could be generated by housing? I don't have the numbers, but I highly doubt it. So that's one issue, misuse of land. Banff has a need to reside clause, and while I don't think Canmore needs to go there, I do think they need a much better balance of homes vs second homes. At this point it's all ####ed so I don't really have any hope anything will get better, and Canmore will continue to see what made it so great erode away, at least for those who care about those things. But there were many points in the past far better decisions could have been made. All water under the bridge now.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

For a tourist town of Canmore's size 3 golf courses really doesn't seem like a ton.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

For a tourist town of Canmore's size 3 golf courses really doesn't seem like a ton.

It's two too many. They eliminated a lot of good biking and hiking trails, for the benefit of the wealthy. Yay world. I know, nobody cares.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Sliver

So what, though?

I have friends who grew up in Edgemont pseudo-mansions that live in little bungalows as adults because they can't afford to live where they grew up.

My dad had better houses than my house.

My cousin grew up in a wealthy home and spent summers and holidays at his family's insane cabin and vacationed in Hawaii annually throughout his upbringing. Lives in a two bedroom house now and his biggest vacation in the last 20 years has been a camping trip to Vancouver Island. He drives a delivery van.

My wife's family is from France. Her dad and aunt grew up in Antibes, France. Checked out real estate there lately? Her aunt lives in a suburb of Paris now and could never dream in a bazillion years of affording a place in Antibes. Loves her memories of her childhood there, but resentment she is now priced out doesn't enter into her mind.

Do you think people have a birthright to Canmore? If so, why does that just start in the 80s and 90s? Why not before then...you know, when the First Nations called it home?

You don't think Calgarians have ever been "pushed out" of their homes in the name of progress? Deerfoot, Crowchild, Stoney, every subdivision...everywhere had people living where newer development now stands. There's no other way.

Why - just because somebody had the good fortune of being born in Canmore - do they get to stay (in your mind) before somebody new gets to love in?

What if I was a long haul trucker and only spent weekends at home in Calgary? Should I be denegrated for my place being empty 90% of the time? What about snowbirds? Calgary house empty half the year; Arizona house empty half the year. Do you have a moral issue with that?

Should there be more housing in Canmore for all the displaced Canmorites? Fkn complain to full-time residents. They are the ones who vote down housing expansion. There is a housing crunch and increased prices because the residents (I'm not allowed to vote since I'm a part-timer) constantly vote, and bitch/complain against new builds.

I've said it before, but it bears repeating. Canmore people are the MAGA screechers of Alberta chanting 'build a wall.' It's the same mindset. They're just missing the red hats. FYGM instead of MAGA, though. They're selfish, self centered, exclusionary and completely ignorant to how every other facet of our system of freely being allowed to buy anything we want in this country works. We're allowed to buy a place in Canmore. Canmore people need to respect their neighbours - and part time neighbours - as fellow Albertans, Canadians and humans, frankly. The vitriol is out of line and immature.

Who wouldn't want a vacation property in Canmore? If you love the mountains, love skiing and love biking around and then catching an awesome meal at a wicked restaurant then there's nowhere better in our parts.

Sadly, it's too expensive for everyone to get to enjoy, but thems the breaks, I'm afraid. Canmore need to wrap their heads around this like everyone everywhere else does when this exact same thing happens elsewhere.

Go price out a cabin in Whistler in 1992 and then price it out now. Wonder if it has gone up.

Take any random condo in Calgary, Vancouver, Toronto, etc and do the exact same thing. Let me know if you see a pattern that mimics Canmore's real estate issues.

It's also rich you are an out-of-town transplant into Calgary and a contributor to our increased prices and congestion and user of infrastructure versus before you came, yet I'd bet my left nut no Calgarian has ever tried to make you feel like an outsider or somebody who doesn't belong because you weren't born here.

I really hope Canmore people are able to reflect on their build-a-wall / dey take 'er jaabs mentality at some point. It's ludicrous and it's rude.

I don't know. I'd also day the ugliest parts of Canmore are caused by the destruction the pricks who lived in Canmore in the 1900s caused. Destroyed ecology. Abandoned mine shafts. Undermined and unstable mountains sides. Toxins literally piped and dumped into the Bow River for Calgarians to the drink. Blown up mountains. These people were the worst thing to ever happen to that valley and all for the almighty dollar.

And it was all stolen land, to boot, lol.

Canmore people are victims, but only in their own heads. They have elevated their needs, gripes and desires above everyone else's.

Best revenge is doing whatever we can to fk them over, though. Just bought a fridge. Avoided Canmore stores and went to HK e Depot in Calgary. I will not support these pricks that loath us. For every sneer I get from a Canmore jerk, I plot an asymetrical revenge to pluck a dollar out of their community and out it somewhere else. Right down to grocery shopping in Calgary to make sure I'm contributing as little to the Canmore economy as possible. Took me a couple years with my place there to get to that point...we started off being so excited to be apart of the community, but holy cow are these people #######s to us.

I have several Calgary friends with places there. Everyone has gone through the exact same trajectory. It's another funny thing about the locals. They constantly shoot themselves in the foot. I love it.

Okay Moses

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

It's two too many. They eliminated a lot of good biking and hiking trails, for the benefit of the wealthy. Yay world. I know, nobody cares.

Those hiking and biking trails aren't generate much, if any, income for the town though.

[undercoverbrother]

I mean is Canmore really that special

It’s just Nanton with mountains

Big deal

[Leondros]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

Those hiking and biking trails aren't generate much, if any, income for the town though.

Like $0 revenue. At least golf courses employ many workers, have weddings, banquets, restaurants, etc. Far more benefit economically than local on his bike going through the trails. His arguments are all over the place and inconsistent. It just comes across as someone yelling at the clouds. At least Sliver is being consistent, albeit hyperbolic at times.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

Those hiking and biking trails aren't generate much, if any, income for the town though.

So what? They weren't costing the town money like the new developments do. You think Canmore's coffers are overflowing? Hint, they are not, at all. So that's a failure of that model. Residents have steep taxes and it's tough to see any major improvements over the past 30 years to their QoL, and as I've pointed out, they've lost a lot for it. Why is everything measured in revenue generation? Should every patch of earth be exploited for maximum profit? Or, you know, leave some nice things for people to enjoy naturally without requiring a gate keeper to profit off of it. Kinda like the type of thing residents used to be able to do. Gee, wonder why they might be upset. But #### 'em. Progress!

[blankall]

Originally Posted by GGG

Okay Moses

Sliver's (Silver's SP?) way of saying things is definitely colourful, but he's correct in that what we are seeing is NIMBYism and attempts to preserve generational wealth wrapped in the guise of arguments relating to equalitarianism, social justice, environmentalism, etc...

About 1/3 of the bedrooms in Canada are empty: https://globalnews.ca/news/9890401/c...ing-solutions/

And this problem seems to get worse in areas where real estate is more expensive, as actual families have less disposable income and are some of the first to get priced out.

[Locke]

Its kind of funny of Canmore residents.

"We like hiking and biking!" in our 20s and 30s.

Now that the incumbents are in their 50s and 60s and nobody younger can afford to get in?

Golf Courses!!

Their kids dont like it because its not the Canmore of their youth! But their kids cant afford to do anything about it.

They may hate it, but they made it themselves.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Why is everything measured in revenue generation? Should every patch of earth be exploited for maximum profit? Or, you know, leave some nice things for people to enjoy naturally without requiring a gate keeper to profit off of it. Kinda like the type of thing residents used to be able to do. Gee, wonder why they might be upset. But #### 'em. Progress!

You are the one bringing up that the golf courses aren't paying as much taxes as residential properties and should be re-developed because of that.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

I mean is Canmore really that special

It’s just Nanton with mountains

Big deal

Well yeah but that's a pretty big qualifier. It's the mountains that make all these places interesting. Without mountains, Alberta is Saskatchewan.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

You are the one bringing up that the golf courses aren't paying as much taxes as residential properties and should be re-developed because of that.

No, I'm saying they never should have been built in a valley with such limited space. Golf courses are an extremely poor use of land. You can have weddings and such without them. The golf course part is not needed at all, so that argument is weird. Yes,golf courses host weddings, but no, they aren't required to exist for weddings. The Nordic Centre hosts them too. Though it does have a disc golf course...

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

I mean is Canmore really that special

It’s just Nanton with mountains

Big deal

Originally Posted by Table 5

Well yeah but that's a pretty big qualifier. It's the mountains that make all these places interesting. Without mountains, Alberta is Saskatchewan.

Table 5, you're not speaking his language.

UCB, summer is just winter, but with heat.

Or, a lake is just a hole, but with water.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

No, I'm saying they never should have been built in a valley with such limited space. Golf courses are an extremely poor use of land. You can have weddings and such without them. The golf course part is not needed at all, so that argument is weird. Yes,golf courses host weddings, but no, they aren't required to exist for weddings. The Nordic Centre hosts them too. Though it does have a disc golf course...

Isn't at least one of those golf courses a golf course because Canmorites mismanaged land use so bad and the area is so undermined that they can't build major infrastructure for fear of the mountain collapsing?

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Table 5, you're not speaking his language.

UCB, summer is just winter, but with heat.

Or, a lake is just a hole, but with water.

Meh, Canmore ain’t got skiing

I mean there is that dumb cross country type but, yeah.


Canmore a bit of mutton dressed up like lamb

[marsplasticeraser]

Originally Posted by Locke

Its kind of funny of Canmore residents.

"We like hiking and biking!" in our 20s and 30s.

Now that the incumbents are in their 50s and 60s and nobody younger can afford to get in?

Golf Courses!!

Their kids dont like it because its not the Canmore of their youth! But their kids cant afford to do anything about it.

They may hate it, but they made it themselves.

Literally every person I know that lives in canmore from 50 to 80 still hikes regularly. Many still climb and ski tour. It's really impressive to see how people in town have aged.

Even new arrivals are super active on the hiking trails and surrounding areas.

Out of the 50 or so people I know in Canmore I don't know any that golf.

I suspet the golf serves the tourism market more than locals.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Meh, Canmore ain’t got skiing

I mean there is that dumb cross country type but, yeah.


Canmore a bit of mutton dressed up like lamb

Alrighty, well then you keep on enjoying Nanton. It does have the cool bomber museum.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Isn't at least one of those golf courses a golf course because Canmorites mismanaged land use so bad and the area is so undermined that they can't build major infrastructure for fear of the mountain collapsing?

I don't actually think Canmore had any control of those lands, it was all private mine ownership. The province was probably the responsible party at the time, but I'm not sure. What they shouldn't have permitted was development there after the fact, as the collapsing roads from unknown sinkholes caused many problems. At least not until it could be made safe.