2023/24 Blue Jays Off Season Thread

[Jiggy]

Bo is the Jays best and most consistent hitter. Please don't do it Atkins. I feel like Yankee's and Red Sox management are leaking fake rumors about the Jays on purpose. First the Manoah leak, now Bo?

[bluejays]

I'm not opposed to trading anyone whatsoever. But the need to trade someone like Bo is squarely from Atkins:
1) not drafting and developing enough players
2) trading away too many prospects

As a result of the above we have too many FAs, and holes need to be filled. We can't throw money at it because of tough economic times, so the opposite approach needs to be taken and deals need to be made to recoup some depth. I've been screaming about the same #### for a few years now, so it's quite annoying. Anyway, in fairness to the management group, perhaps they have a strong hunch Bo has no intent to sign. If you're dealing Bo, they have to rob the other team blind of everything they've got (prospects and young players). Baseball can be like that for trades, and anything short of that Atkins needs to be put in a circus dunk tank like the clown he is.

[DoubleK]

If the Jays start next season without Bo and Chapman, I'm not sure I like their chances.

What is the plan in that situation? Bring back Donaldson on the cheap?

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

If the Jays start next season without Bo and Chapman, I'm not sure I like their chances.

What is the plan in that situation? Bring back Donaldson on the cheap?

I don't like their chances to begin with. Look a the holes the soon to be lost FAs have created. The entire team has to change their approach at the plate to get their numbers up. It's all a tall ask. I really do think a retool is in order as the current window was missed. Trading one of Bo or Vlad is needed to get prospects and young guys back to go at it again in a couple seasons.


Donaldson isn't worthy of a roster spot even if they're competing for a championship. He's totally useless at the MLB level. It kinda sucks to have that seemingly negative approach but having so many holes is a tough spot to be in realistically. I could see management taking one last stab at just going for it but that wastes tradeable assets. Also it would be a half assed attempt as ownership isn't ponying up Yankees money to win by free agency. I really think a retool could do wonders. Bo or Vlad deal brings back a farm. If Springer and Romano could be shopped for a couple young guys that would be great too. In the 2025 season you bring up some internal talent who you just traded for and see if you can build toward a winner from there. It's not a complete rebuild if done right.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by bluejays

I don't like their chances to begin with. Look a the holes the soon to be lost FAs have created. The entire team has to change their approach at the plate to get their numbers up. It's all a tall ask. I really do think a retool is in order as the current window was missed. Trading one of Bo or Vlad is needed to get prospects and young guys back to go at it again in a couple seasons.


Donaldson isn't worthy of a roster spot even if they're competing for a championship. He's totally useless at the MLB level. It kinda sucks to have that seemingly negative approach but having so many holes is a tough spot to be in realistically. I could see management taking one last stab at just going for it but that wastes tradeable assets. Also it would be a half assed attempt as ownership isn't ponying up Yankees money to win by free agency. I really think a retool could do wonders. Bo or Vlad deal brings back a farm. If Springer and Romano could be shopped for a couple young guys that would be great too. In the 2025 season you bring up some internal talent who you just traded for and see if you can build toward a winner from there. It's not a complete rebuild if done right.

I just think the pitching is so strong it seems like a shame not be in win-now mode.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

I just think the pitching is so strong it seems like a shame not be in win-now mode.

Sort of agree. And I can see ownership putting together an average piecemeal lineup to just go at it for the pitching alone. Almost everything clicked with the pitching last year, which was very good. If they go down this route they have to bulk up a bit there to ensure your strongpoint is lock tight, then hope for the best with hitting. Truthfully I can't see them retool but I think if you have an honest organization and look at the best path forward for actually creating a sustainable winning team, the time to do it is now. The politics of a new ballpark renovation investment, say otherwise.

[Roof-Daddy]

The D will likely take a hit losing KK and Chapman, and the D taking a hit will probably cause the pitching to take a hit too.

[puffnstuff]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

If the Jays start next season without Bo and Chapman, I'm not sure I like their chances.

What is the plan in that situation? Bring back Donaldson on the cheap?

No I dont think Donaldson should get a deal, he should have to pay the Jays full price in order to play for them.

[browna]

They need to get Vladdy a pal, since they took his buddies away last offseason.
There will be a couple more vets to replace Kiermeier and Belt. Kiermeier was fine, Belt was not, and really they weren't the right fit for the team. Merrifield gone too.

One of the new vets should also be the defacto team spokesman, just seemed like the lack of leadership and team unity wasn't there and there really wasn't a team leader that wasn't a pitcher. Springer, maybe, and really it was Gausman...again when you'd think Keirmeier or Belt should've taken the lead there.

Dynamics have to change in the locker room is my point I guess, as a lot of things seemed off in that regard last year. But yes, given the pitching they have, a window is still there, just need some reliable, value adding supporting cast.

In other news Gibby has been hired by the Mets as a bench coach.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by browna

They need to get Vladdy a pal, since they took his buddies away last offseason.
There will be a couple more vets to replace Kiermeier and Belt. Kiermeier was fine, Belt was not, and really they weren't the right fit for the team. Merrifield gone too.

One of the new vets should also be the defacto team spokesman, just seemed like the lack of leadership and team unity wasn't there and there really wasn't a team leader that wasn't a pitcher. Springer, maybe, and really it was Gausman...again when you'd think Keirmeier or Belt should've taken the lead there.

Dynamics have to change in the locker room is my point I guess, as a lot of things seemed off in that regard last year. But yes, given the pitching they have, a window is still there, just need some reliable, value adding supporting cast.

In other news Gibby has been hired by the Mets as a bench coach.

Leadership is an interesting one. Taking Vlad’s two buddies away was a terribly not so subtle shot to Vlad’s maturity. Agree they have to bring someone like that back to make him feel comfortable again and offer a mea culpa. Normally leadership can’t come from the outside as they’d be just seen as an outsider blowhard internally. So it’s gotta come internally from Vlad’s growth.

Kinda wish Gibby would come back but who knows if it’d work.

[Jason14h]

If Bo has told them he isn’t resigning this is the offseason the maximize value as the UFA for hitters is terrible .

Personally I think this teams completely missed their window and should actually start a total rebuild this offseason

I don’t think it will happen - I think they will take one more go at it before making these hard decisions next year

BUT the Jays just had a season in which they had their top 4 pitchers stay healthy for the entire season . This has happened a handful of times in MLB history . They didn’t manage to ever win a single playoff game and snuck into the playoffs

History and luck says they are due for their starters to be more banged up , they have no pitching depth , little hitting help coming from the farm , and the AL East is going to be a beast next year as I expect Yanks and Boston to really load up in UFA pitching this year and trades

Can this team make playoffs ? Absolutely . But unless Vladdy returns at a .300 40 hr guy , Varsho becomes a 35 HR .250 hitter , Kirk returns to all star form , and one of the kids steps up this team has no real playoff success opportunity

A smart team would take a hard look in the mirror . The Jays could have a really fast 2 -3 year “rebuild” if done right considering their owners have deep pockets and they have a ton of prime age assets to move in an offseason where I expect it to be a sellers market

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Samonadreau

We better get an absolute haul if we trade Bo.

Nah, it's a baloney rumor made up so that the MLB insiders can talk about something.

I mean look at this "Cubs" rumor... they want to acquire him to play 3B... so they're going to get Bo (whose arm isn't the best) move him off SS (which he doesn't want to do) to play the infield position where the arm is the most important tool? Oh look, the Jays don't have anyone to play 3B either so now the Jays are creating another hole in the roster (because they don't have anyone in the minors suited to play SS at the MLB level)? "Ok" you say "maybe the Blue Jays are rebuilding?" Sure, I doubt it, but let's say that's the case... if the Jays were open to trading Bo as part of a prospect focused rebuild they'd be open to trading Gausman, Romano, Jansen, and Vlad... but there are zero indications that's the case.

Nope, nothing about that rumor passes the smell test. Sounds like just some reporter trying to make a mountain out of the standard offseason chatter molehill.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Parallex

Nah, it's a baloney rumor made up so that the MLB insiders can talk about something.

I mean look at this "Cubs" rumor... they want to acquire him to play 3B... so they're going to get Bo (whose arm isn't the best) move him off SS (which he doesn't want to do) to play the infield position where the arm is the most important tool? Oh look, the Jays don't have anyone to play 3B either so now the Jays are creating another hole in the roster (because they don't have anyone in the minors suited to play SS at the MLB level)? "Ok" you say "maybe the Blue Jays are rebuilding?" Sure, I doubt it, but let's say that's the case... if the Jays were open to trading Bo as part of a prospect focused rebuild they'd be open to trading Gausman, Romano, Jansen, and Vlad... but there are zero indications that's the case.

Nope, nothing about that rumor passes the smell test. Sounds like just some reporter trying to make a mountain out of the standard offseason chatter molehill.

Yeah, I think if you trade Bo you might as well offer all the pieces that
1) have value
2) won't be around when the prospects you pull in make the jump to MLB

I think you could reasonably add the rest of the starting pitchers to your list above, as well as Springer.

But there's no way they do that before their first year in the "new" ballpark.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

I think you could reasonably add the rest of the starting pitchers to your list above, as well as Springer.

I was really just putting out the "sexiest" names of folk that they would be moving if they wanted to do a proper prospect based rebuild, you're right of course there would be other names... and we would have heard about those as well (but we haven't).

Thinking about it some more I could come up with only 1 scenario where trading Bo makes any sense... and it sure as hell doesn't involve the Cubs. The one scenario is that the Jays and Padres link up on a deal that has Bo for Soto as the centrepiece (other parts on the edges of course but the meat of it would be that). Then the Jays push hard to sign Chapman and use Martinez to acquire the best SS a Martinez can buy.

That one case aside I just don't see any logic behind it.

[Jason14h]

To be that’s the least likely scenario

Trade a guy with 2 year of control for a guy with 1 ?

There’s zero chance Soto is signing with the Jays before UFA

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

To be that’s the least likely scenario

Trade a guy with 2 year of control for a guy with 1 ?

There’s zero chance Soto is signing with the Jays before UFA

Yeah... but Soto is a pretty all world hitter. If team control terms were equal the Padres wouldn't consider it. It'd kind of be a Kahwi trade type scenario. It's not going to happen but I can't rationalize in my head any type of scenario where trading Bo makes any sense whatsoever other then to acquire a type of asset like Soto.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Parallex

Yeah... but Soto is a pretty all world hitter. If team control terms were equal the Padres wouldn't consider it. It'd kind of be a Kahwi trade type scenario. It's not going to happen but I can't rationalize in my head any type of scenario where trading Bo makes any sense whatsoever other then to acquire a type of asset like Soto.

Ok fair enough - but we’re not a Soto away from being a top contender . But I will give it to you if the plan is to win next year

SD can’t take any salary back though - they need to shed a ton and replace a full pitching staff

[Cheese]

rumblings again..

https://twitter.com/user/status/1729142165748748482

https://twitter.com/user/status/1729180249601261802

https://twitter.com/user/status/1729151412628824359

[flamingred89]

Far from reality but the fact the Jays are still in discussions is kind of exciting.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Ok fair enough - but we’re not a Soto away from being a top contender . But I will give it to you if the plan is to win next year

SD can’t take any salary back though - they need to shed a ton and replace a full pitching staff

I think Soto without subtracting Bichette probably puts us into top contender status, if you held everything else equal. Move Varsho to centre and move on from KK. Adding Soto's bat and subtracting KK improves the offense quite a lot.

But it's probably hard to have the top bid for him with only futures.