Flames - how to cure the rot for 2019/20

[dino7c]

Monahan didn't make as many mistakes because he never had the puck.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Otto-matic

I just don't get why majority of the fan base wants to blow this team up and go back into rebuild mode when we literally just came out of one.

One might argue the rebuild was incomplete and the shortcuts taken prevented its success.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Monahan didn't make as many mistakes because he never had the puck.

Yep and that's a huge problem when your top line center barely has the puck on his stick. I like the guy but he's in his prime now and he's never going to be a good skater, elite playmaker, or even remotely physical. He's a poor man's Tim Kerr.

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Take a week to digest some things and try to figure out what can be done too add that extra element or if you can.

The biggest concern is that there is 7.25 million tied up in Brouwer and Neal for 3 more years. Thats going to be hard to cover up.

Hope for yhe NHL to opt out of the CBA and get compliance buyouts to fix the bulk of that problem.

That's the other thing, the team needs to end their habit of signing FAs to hail mary contracts. What if they sign Duchene in the offseason to a monster contract, and his play drops off and he becomes another Neal?

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Kovaz

There's a difference between playing bad and playing gutless. Gaudreau had some bad giveaways and dumb decisions, but he was at least trying. No amount of heart can overcome being literally the weakest player in the NHL. I'm not convinced Monahan even broke a sweat.

Disagree. You see Mangiapane fighting along the boards, driving the front of the net, fighting through checks at a similar height to Gaudreau. Gaudreau? He bails out on board battles, he doesn't even try to fight through checks most of the time. You think he was trying? Trying to avoid physical contact is what I noticed him trying to do.

He's incredibly skilled, a magical player if you give him time and space. But clearly he's also incredibly scared to take hits and it affects his ability to create offence in the playoffs. He's not going to get time or space in the playoffs. And I'm not optimistic about his ability to create without it given that he appears to have zero interest in trying to fight through playoff checking.

What if replacing Monahan with a better centre doesn't make Gaudreau any less scared to go to the corners and the front of the net in the playoffs? That's the frightening question that I think some of you are trying your best not to ponder. What if Gaudreau is always going to be significantly worse 5 on 5 in the playoffs because of the tighter checking and more physical play?

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

That's the other thing, the team needs to end their habit of signing FAs to hail mary contracts. What if they sign Duchene in the offseason to a monster contract, and his play drops off just and he becomes another Neal?

Hell the team still doesn't have the goaltending situation resolved. Smith was fantastic in the playoffs but does anyone want a Smith/Rittich tandem next season? Hard to imagine Smith has it in him to get better a year (he was awful in the regular season) older next season.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Igottago

Johnny's problem was execution. Obviously he needs to be more clutch. If he scores that penalty shot or breakaway we might be gearing up for another game tomorrow. But he was at least noticeable and trying to create opportunities.

You can't blame Johnny for Monahan being invisible however, unless you think its Gaudreau's duty to literally do all the work and bank pucks in off Monahan's backside. Even though Johnny wasn't good, he was by far better than Monahan in terms of overall compete.

Neither Johnny nor Monahan's compete was anywhere near good enough this playoffs. That's why we have some very hard questions to ponder and that's why some people are re-thinking if our core players are good enough to win in the playoffs.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I hope none of you are managing your stocks this way, selling off your assets at a low point and looking to buy other assets at a high!!

In what world would selling Gaudreau after his career high season be considering selling off at a low point? That makes no sense.

The rest of the GM's and scouts in the league didn't burn all their scouting reports from before the playoffs started. Gaudreau and Monahan have sky high value and that hasn't changed one bit.

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Gaudreau for Point. I rather trade the 26 year old for the 23 year than the 29 year old especially since Point is from Calgary.

Gaudreau and Monahan for Hall (w/ extension) and Hischier

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I hope none of you are managing your stocks this way, selling off your assets at a low point and looking to buy other assets at a high!!

I'd say this off season is the exact opposite of a low point in market value.
We just finished 2nd in the league and had 107 points. The perceived value of our core players has never been higher and trade returns may never be better.

I'm even open to trading Gio as some have suggested. Love the guy, but this is 100% the highest value he'll ever have in a trade.

Even if you want him to stay and retire a Flame, you'd have to acknowledge his asset value is at it's peak and will only go down based on age.
I think management at least entertains all options.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

Johnny is a winger. It would leave us really thin at wing. I suppose Bennett could be moved to the wing, though...

Bennett has played the last 2 years at wing.

I see it as pushing Monahan down to the second line. The move would be very similar to last years blockbuster where the Flames sent out a 25 year old D and 26 year old forward for a 23 year old forward and 21 year old D. This would be a 26 year old winger for 23 year old center so still drastically changing the core it is not necessarily impacting the window and if anything it is extending it.

For Tampa they want to win now with 29 year old Stamkos, 26 year old Kucherov, 28 year old Hedmen. Johnny comes in at a good contract and fits their window.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Disagree. You see Mangiapane fighting along the boards, driving the front of the net, fighting through checks at a similar height to Gaudreau. Gaudreau? He bails out on board battles, he doesn't even try to fight through checks most of the time. You think he was trying? Trying to avoid physical contact is what I noticed him trying to do.

He's incredibly skilled, a magical player if you give him time and space. But clearly he's also incredibly scared to take hits and it affects his ability to create offence in the playoffs. He's not going to get time or space in the playoffs. And I'm not optimistic about his ability to create without it given that he appears to have zero interest in trying to fight through playoff checking.

What if replacing Monahan with a better centre doesn't make Gaudreau any less scared to go to the corners and the front of the net in the playoffs? That's the frightening question that I think some of you are trying your best not to ponder. What if Gaudreau is always going to be significantly worse 5 on 5 in the playoffs because of the tighter checking and more physical play?

Mangiapane is listed at 184lbs and Gaudreau is listed at 165lbs. That's a big difference. Remember Millions asking Camalleri about Gaudreau at the end season - saying he has to put on 20 lbs and Camalleri said no that's not his game. Camalleri another guy similar in height said when he was younger and breaking in that he was always able to be physically strong - a stout guy with a stout frame. Just because guys have similar heights does not mean similar frames.

Gaudreau's game, even in past playoffs, was not smash guys in the corners or stand in front of the net. He didn't play his best but he kept attacking, kept trying to create - that's his game trying to create.

He's an elusive player that has produced in big games. I understand the frustration but I think people are being too harsh on him - My guess is these people don't like small players period.

[BurningSteel]

Perhaps we can create skittle flavoured protein and creatine

[rohara66]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

Mangiapane is listed at 184lbs and Gaudreau is listed at 165lbs. That's a big difference. Remember Millions asking Camalleri about Gaudreau at the end season - saying he has to put on 20 lbs and Camalleri said no that's not his game. Camalleri another guy similar in height said when he was younger and breaking in that he was always able to be physically strong - a stout guy with a stout frame. Just because guys have similar heights does not mean similar frames.

Gaudreau's game, even in past playoffs, was not smash guys in the corners or stand in front of the net. He didn't play his best but he kept attacking, kept trying to create - that's his game trying to create.

He's an elusive player that has produced in big games. I understand the frustration but I think people are being too harsh on him - My guess is these people don't like small players period.

Gaudreau doesn’t need to be crashing and banging in the corners but he can’t be the opposite either. He spent the entire playoffs dishing the puck away and making dumb decisions as soon as anyone pressured him physically. He was playing like he was scared to get hit, full stop. He didn’t want to get touched and it showed.

[calgarygeologist]

Maybe not a #1 guy but I wonder if Brock Nelson could fill the role for the Flames?

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

Mangiapane is listed at 184lbs and Gaudreau is listed at 165lbs. That's a big difference. Remember Millions asking Camalleri about Gaudreau at the end season - saying he has to put on 20 lbs and Camalleri said no that's not his game. Camalleri another guy similar in height said when he was younger and breaking in that he was always able to be physically strong - a stout guy with a stout frame. Just because guys have similar heights does not mean similar frames.

Gaudreau's game, even in past playoffs, was not smash guys in the corners or stand in front of the net. He didn't play his best but he kept attacking, kept trying to create - that's his game trying to create.

He's an elusive player that has produced in big games. I understand the frustration but I think people are being too harsh on him - My guess is these people don't like small players period.

Fleury was my favourite player growing up. Very small but very strong, very feisty, very physical.

I don't dislike small players. I do prefer players who can fight through checking to those who are scared of physical play.

Let's be honest here. Gaudreau played a soft, scared game this playoffs. It's very worrying because the playoffs are always going to be more physical and tighter checking then the regular season unless the NHL changes its officiating somehow. So is Gaudreau always going to be worse in the playoffs? Can be ever win in the playoffs if our most dangerous player is significantly less dangerous when it matters most?

These are the worrying questions we are left with.

Treliving has a very hard summer ahead of him. I don't envy the job he has to do right now.

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by djmichaelk

He wasn’t great last playoffs either he gives away the puck Too much And can’t handle The pressure of the playoffs


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You can say he is too small, he get pushed around and get slashed at every turns. But calling him he can't handle the pressure would be incorrect. To his fault, he tried to do it himself too much.

Originally Posted by djmichaelk

Trade Johnny in the summer it will fetch a nice return
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If he is as bad as he said, why would he fetch a nice return?

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by KipperFaNaTic

What's with the hate for jankowski? He's a serviceable third line-winger who is a great penalty killer and gets you 10 goals.

He is too soft for his size.

[flylock shox]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Yep and that's a huge problem when your top line center barely has the puck on his stick. I like the guy but he's in his prime now and he's never going to be a good skater, elite playmaker, or even remotely physical. He's a poor man's Tim Kerr.

Quoted for the Tim Kerr reference.

Very similar but for Kerr having the ability to get space in the slot and bang home goals with regularity during the playoffs.

[soulchoice]

Originally Posted by Thunderball

To me, there's something very, very off between Monahan and Gaudreau. Both are high value assets, but both seem to have some key deficiencies. Going forward, if both are on the Flames in 19/20, they should be on different lines.

I don't think Giordano had a bad playoff series, but he certainly wasn't good, and he has to wear some of the blame as captain for the mental breakdown evident. I've heard he's a quiet captain, and that's clearly not a good thing when the going gets tough.

As an offseason plan, I think the first step is to know who was playing hurt. I suspect Monahan and Tkachuk were.

From there, I don't actively shop Monahan, Gaudreau, or Giordano, but I listen to every call from other GMs who might inquire. If there's a good player for player trade (in the case of Monahan or Gaudreau) or a good value trade for Gio, I'd explore it and accept for one of Monahan or Gaudreau (whoever gets a better return) and for Gio.

Assuming neither Monahan nor Gaudreau move, I think trying Bennett-Backlund-Gaudreau is worth a try, at least in preseason, if a #1 C isn't obtainable, with Lindholm, Monahan and Tkachuk on a second scoring line. Bennett has skill, can make space and enforce when guys target Johnny, Backlund can be a second puck moving, two-way option. The downside is none of them are key finishers, but there's something very wrong with the 13/23 chemistry and if they had a falling out, I'd explore other options.

I have always wondered why Backlund hasnt been tried with Gaudreau when games tighten up. Yes, he isnt a top line centre, but in reality, with the exception of finding an open spot to park and in tight finish(goals), he is a better player overall than Monny.

Backlund is probably our best player on the team for being able to skate with the puck and gain zone entry. If we want to compare the whole Chicago(Kane and Toews) combo, Backs is more like Toews than Monny in game play. Cause both Toews and Backlund are both solid defensively and are good possession players. Plus Backs actually plays a heavier game than Monny, in that he takes the body as well.

The only reason why I presume Backs hasnt been used to play with Johnny is we need him to play the shutdown role vs the other teams top lines, which would not work to the strengths of what Gaudreau brings to the team. Put Backlund in offensive situations and he is a 60 point centre with Gaudreau. Key is who can play the shutdown position.

For the playoffs this year, maybe dont worry about who is the number 1 or 2 line. Just play the game and let the players sort it out on the ice. Especially since the Mackinnon line was playing so much, the task for one shutdown line to play against them. Derek Ryan is good defensively, but to have the fourth line going head to head against Mack, isnt the best option.

Gaudreau Backlund Lindholm/Bennett
Tkachuk Monahan Bennett/Lindholm