[Rumour] McKenzie: dealbreaker for Flames is that Sens want Valimaki in Stone package - Page 16 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

GioforPM · 02-23-2019, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buzzard

Yeah. He was almost a two point a game player in the Russian Elite League at 22 though.

Oh, I know, but I'm trying to use the consistent scale here.

timbit · 02-23-2019, 10:03 PM

Not sure you want to be talking about anybody’s “ Schtick” after the sell job you just tried and failed miserably at.

LOL.

GranteedEV · 02-23-2019, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LWcrowfoot

Rigged might be a harsh word, twisted beyond any recognition is a gentler phrase.

Completely abritray labels like "star" don't matter. Mark Stone was a star all season if throughout that season he put up 20+ goals and 60+ points. So 22 years and 150 days? That might make more sense. Mind you the Senators didn't make it out of the first round that year, so season ended before May... now we've got to eliminate the summer days. 22 years plus 60 days?

Here is the way you should actually put it, without getting so convoluted.

Sam Bennett age 22 (on pace)
15 goals 31 points (third line)

Mark Stone age 22
26 goals 64 points (first line)

Re: bolded

False.

Stone had 11 pts in 25 games when Paul MacLean was fired. That was not a star in any way. In fact it's pretty familiar production to a certain support player on our roster.

He blew up after that because a coaching change afforded him a different opportunity. His ice time and role blew up.

transplant99 · 02-23-2019, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Fun fact, Sergei Makarov had zero NHL points at age 22.

None at 32 either!

GioforPM · 02-23-2019, 10:10 PM

Flames shoulda kept Bennett out of the league for a couple years I guess.

GranteedEV · 02-23-2019, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Flames shoulda kept Bennett out of the league for a couple years I guess.

But then we couldn't call him a finished product at age 22.

GioforPM · 02-23-2019, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

But then we couldn't call him a finished product at age 22.

Citation please.

GranteedEV · 02-23-2019, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Citation please.

https://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpo...&postcount=233

timbit · 02-23-2019, 10:28 PM

Ill take transparency and reality for 200, Alex.

GioforPM · 02-23-2019, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

https://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpo...&postcount=233

I have read that several times and don't see "finished product". There may well be a prediction of a ceiling there, and also an assessment of current play.

Do you think Bennett will be a star? And if so, one as good as Stone?

CalgaryFan1988 · 02-23-2019, 10:33 PM

Found this response by a Bruins fan (burstnbloom), speaking of Mark Stone, when someone suggested Stone was overrated.

"There was a time when Patrice Bergeron was talked about this way. Not enough points. Not elite. 2nd line player. We didn't understand. The people who watched him every day would say he was worth every bit as much as the elite of the elite players in the NHL. Now everyone agrees with that characterization. The proliferation of analytics and our understanding of possession and shot share paints players like Bergeron in the right light. Or at least a more accurate one. Mark Stone is the same kind of player. Yah, he has never scored 50 goals, but he absolutely carries his teammates to the offensive zone. He's a total line driver and nothing happens on his side of the ice unless he's the one doing it. Imagine him playing with another guy like that? Good god, i need a towel. He is every bit the elite player Ottawa fans are saying he is. There hasn't been a player this good available on deadline day for years. The only thing keeping his value down is that the Sens only own his value for 22 more games."

David Struch · 02-23-2019, 10:37 PM

Agreed, Mark Stone is the winger version of Patrice Bergeron.

GioforPM · 02-23-2019, 10:40 PM

Like Bergeron? Great! Let's sign Stone for 6.85. He'll, make it 7.

GranteedEV · 02-23-2019, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Do you think Bennett will be a star? And if so, one as good as Stone?

I believe Bennett could be a star in the right situation.

One as good as Stone? Probably not, although I don't think it's crazy to think a different team's dev staff could encourage him to add to his skillset and maybe add a sauce pass to his repertoire. Stone is creme de la creme, and that doesn't necessarily mean Bennett should be included recklessly. Especially since ten years from now Bennett could be a star while Stone is already retired. The kid has a long career ahead of him.

Bennett also has a unique ability to adapt to and impact games with other intangibles. It's a rare and unique skillset.

A lot can change. I look at names like Couturier and Kadri and I see guys who really needed the right situations before hitting their stride, and their teams were rewarded for their patience.

Most of all - I don't believe for one second anyone else is offering a single player as valuable as Bennett for Stone at the present moment. So it isn't about Bennett V Stone. It's about Bennett V The Field.

GioforPM · 02-23-2019, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

I believe Bennett could be a star in the right situation.

One as good as Stone? Probably not, although I don't think it's crazy to think a different team's dev staff could encourage him to add to his skillset and maybe add a sauce pass to his repertoire. Stone is creme de la creme, and that doesn't necessarily mean Bennett should be included recklessly. Especially since ten years from now Bennett could be a star while Stone is already retired. The kid has a long career ahead of him.

Bennett also has a unique ability to adapt to and impact games with other intangibles. It's a rare and unique skillset.

A lot can change. I look at names like Couturier and Kadri and I see guys who really needed the right situations before hitting their stride, and their teams were rewarded for their patience.

Most of all - I don't believe for one second anyone else is offering a single player as valuable as Bennett for Stone at the present moment. So it isn't about Bennett V Stone. It's about Bennett V The Field.

You are assuming a hell of a lot about Bennett based on his history, which isn't really about impacting games.

transplant99 · 02-23-2019, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

I believe Bennett could be a star in the right situation.

One as good as Stone? Probably not, although I don't think it's crazy to think a different team's dev staff could encourage him to add to his skillset and maybe add a sauce pass to his repertoire. Stone is creme de la creme, and that doesn't necessarily mean Bennett should be included recklessly. Especially since ten years from now Bennett could be a star while Stone is already retired. The kid has a long career ahead of him.

Bennett also has a unique ability to adapt to and impact games with other intangibles. It's a rare and unique skillset.

A lot can change. I look at names like Couturier and Kadri and I see guys who really needed the right situations before hitting their stride, and their teams were rewarded for their patience.

Most of all - I don't believe for one second anyone else is offering a single player as valuable as Bennett for Stone at the present moment. So it isn't about Bennett V Stone. It's about Bennett V The Field.

There is not one single aspect to Sam Bennetts game that is rare nor unique.

LOL

Scroopy Noopers · 02-23-2019, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Flames shoulda kept Bennett out of the league for a couple years I guess.

Having to send him back to Junior was the issue. What a dumb rule. Let’s have this kid come back and roll everyone...

I believe a year or 2 in the AHL would have been perfect. Not that I’m displeased with Bennett, I just think his development was stunted.

Kybb79 · 02-23-2019, 10:50 PM

I believe GG had a part in hurting Bennetts development. Plus playing with garbage linemates on the 3rd and 4th line.

DomeFoam · 02-23-2019, 10:53 PM

Aaaaaand the threads about Bennett.

GranteedEV · 02-23-2019, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by transplant99

There is not one single aspect to Sam Bennetts game that is rare nor unique.

LOL

You are free to your opinion, I guess.

I'll take Tre's word for how common his game is, though

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad Treliving

"We expect him to produce offensively and he will, he does. But he gives us a certain different skill set that not a lot of guys possess.

"There's an abrasiveness, a competitiveness, a hardness, to him that you can't just walk down to the corner store and find any day of the week."

...

"Now[adays] you get a guy who's a double threat in that particular way, he's so valuable because they are far fewer guys like that: Players with that hard-edge element who have offensive ability."