[Rumour] Friedman: Treliving looking to add a 1st for 2018 draft. Coyotes won't sign Hickey.

[Northendzone]

At the end of the day, I fail to see a trade that the flames could make that would land them a first round draft pick in June, and not mean giving up a player that is a big part of the line up today, and that kind of trade is unlikely to help them in the next two years, unless they really get lucky and make a deal, and then draft a rookie of the year candidate.

But that being said, that is perhaps why I am not a GM of the flames. As bingo mentioned, Treliving has a plan and has been able to do some stuff.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

You've just turned defence from a position of strength to a major position of weakness.

Also, that fourth line is still pretty bad.

The defense is certainly a strength on paper.

But did you feel watching the games that it was truly a significant strength?

[memphusk]

Maybe it's a case of addition by subrataction like Colorado getting rid of Duchene.

[SeanCharles]

Untouchable (would be pissed if traded): Tkachuk, Gaudreau, Monahan, Hamilton

Not untouchable but would be disappointed if traded: Jankowski, Bennett, Gio, Backlund

Still like: Hamonic, Kulak, Lazar, Shore, Hathaway, Smith, Rittich

Would be fine trading for roster upgrade or keeping: Frolik, Stone, Brodie, Ferland

Do not want anymore: Bartkowski, Brouwer, Stajan, Glass, Stewart, Versteeg

Gaudreau-Monahan-______
Tkachuk-Backlund-______
Bennett-Jankowski-______
Dube-Shore-Lazar
Hathaway/Lomberg

Gio-Hamilton
Kulak-Hamonic
Kylington-Andersson (sheltered with lots of offensive opportunities)
_______

Smith
Rittich

Obviously some of those holes will be filled by guys like Ferland, Frolik, Brodie or Stone as I doubt there will be so many moves. I do expect some moves however.

On the backend it's tough because we have right shots that I doubt get dealt in Hamilton and Hamonic and you need to make room for Andersson but Stone doesn't get you anything special. Whereas Brodie is likely more valuable but I'm unsure about the depth on the left side in Kulak and Kylington. I'm unsure on if they are ready for top 4 duty, in Kulak's case, and top 6 mins, in Kylingtons case. One thing is for sure in that our top 5 dmen generally stayed healthy and still didn't achieve the desired effect - coaching/systems or chemistry/individual failures... I don't know yet

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Bingo

So no I don't see it as a change in plans, I'm sorry if that hurts your feelings. I've consistently thought this is what they had in mind, and if they exerecize the plan that I've imagined it isn't a retraction nor would I "safely assume" they have no plan at all.

Maybe they should exorcize the plan.

Bingo - do you think Treliving misjudged the quality of the roster, or is there organizational pressure to “compete now”?

[Gaskal]

I don't think he wants that 2018 1st to actually make the pick. Think a 3 way trade is more likely than a straight up one IMO, if you can't get it done in a hockey trade.

To CGY: Top line RW
To Team 1: Brodie
To Team 2: 2018 1st Round Pick

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

I don't think he wants that 2018 1st to actually make the pick. Think a 3 way trade is more likely than a straight up one IMO, if you can't get it done in a hockey trade.

To CGY: Top line RW
To Team 1: Brodie
To Team 2: 2018 1st Round Pick

I could see something like that

[Manhattanboy]

Sorry, have not read full thread, how would things have to work out in order to draft Tkachuk Jr.? Wait til draft day, see how things play out and trade for the right first round pick?

Otherwise Flames brass should order Chinese for the table while they wait out the first two rounds...

[Resolute 14]

^ To get Brady Tkachuk, you're pretty much trading Gaudreau.

It's not gonna happen.

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

The defense is certainly a strength on paper.

But did you feel watching the games that it was truly a significant strength?

No. But my avatar makes my feelings on the primary reason for that pretty clear.

Regardless, Gio-Reclamation project, rookie-Hamonic, 2nd year-rookie is not a defensive core that will result in playoffs.

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Sorry, have not read full thread, how would things have to work out in order to draft Tkachuk Jr.? Wait til draft day, see how things play out and trade for the right first round pick?

Otherwise Flames brass should order Chinese for the table while they wait out the first two rounds...

*three rounds...

Edit: I guess not, I thought the Smith 3rd Rd pick, due to missing playoffs, was for this yr but it's next yr

[ForeverFlameFan]

I would try and shop Fox first. If you can get a late 1st for him, that would be great. Maybe Chicago or New York with the late 1sts from Nashville or Boston.

If not, Ferland would be a good trading piece too if you can sell him high. Late 1st as well, or a 2nd + prospect.

Don't really want to trade Brodie because I feel like he means more to the team than we think.

[taxbuster]

This is a pretty funny thread. Can't believe what I'm reading most of the time...

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Oh, please.

People loved Robyn Regehr for years when he was scoring as little as zero goals a season.

Comparing Regehr to Hamonic is like comparing Yelle to Brouwer.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Comparing Regehr to Hamonic is like comparing Yelle to Brouwer.

That's not the point, though. The point was that all players need to contribute at both ends of the ice, something that pertains neither to Regehr or Hamonic.

Argue about their defensive differences all you want -- they have both been good defensively here, Regehr moreso -- but they're almost identical offensively.

[Flamenspiel]

Originally Posted by shutout

Nobody but Tkachuk is untradeable.
Question is would another team give up enough to make you trade somebody like Gaudrea?
What would it take to trade him?
Because he is definantly tradeable, problem is what would the other side give up?

I think you are in kind of in Fantasy League frame of mind. The Flames cannot win in a trade of Gaudreau(short of CM, some would even disagree with that), secondly his entertainment value beyond wins and losses is second to none. I think there is a tendency to undervalue players during bad phases for the team and therefore I have to disagree with you, Gaudreau is untouchable right now.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

That's not the point, though. The point was that all players need to contribute at both ends of the ice, something that pertains neither to Regehr or Hamonic.

Argue about their defensive differences all you want -- they have both been good defensively here, Regehr moreso -- but they're almost identical offensively.

And we won a ton of playoff series and games with Regehr

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

That's not the point, though. The point was that all players need to contribute at both ends of the ice, something that pertains neither to Regehr or Hamonic.

Argue about their defensive differences all you want -- they have both been good defensively here, Regehr moreso -- but they're almost identical offensively.

Well they both have limited offensive upside, but a better comparable to Hamonic would be Warrener or Sarich. Doubtful the Flames could get a 1st and two 2nds for Hamonic.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Well they both have limited offensive upside, but a better comparable to Hamonic would be Warrener or Sarich. Doubtful the Flames could get a 1st and two 2nds for Hamonic.

These arguments are ridiculous.

No one here knows what player 'a' can get in a trade. A players vslue is set by the market. Trying to prove the Flames couldn't get a first for Hamonic, or Brodie, or Hamilton is a fools errand.

It only takes one team to pay a certain price, and if there are no other options, the price is the price. The Flames traded a 1st & 2 2nds for a young top 4 D on a very attractive contract and they were bidding against another team, the leafs. What were the other options? Outbid the Canadiens for Alzner? Chase shattenkirk?

For all anyone here knows the Flames could trade Brodie for a first and 2 seconds. A young D on a cap friendly contract coming off a bad year, sound familiar (whisper voice; Travis Hamonic)? All it is going to take is a GM or two to say, if I can get this guy in my lineup, we can fix him.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by memphusk

Maybe it's a case of addition by subrataction like Colorado getting rid of Duchene.

there was a pile of rumour mongering at the end of last season that there was quite a bit of locker room drama going on in Colorado, and that there were kinda factions of players that didn't like each other.

I have a feeling there was some truth to it, and that's one of the reasons why Duchene was getting shopped.

I don't think the Flames have a locker room problem though, so the concept of addition by subtraction doesn't seem to make sense to me in terms of some of the Flames better players.

[Galakanokis]

I am of the mindset that a lot of the issues with this team are coaching related but that does not mean that there are not still issues with the roster.

I have been on the trade Brodie train since last year but it has nothing to do with whether or not I like the player. I think or at least still hope Brodie can return a decent pick or prospect. I think Brodie and Hamilton are very similar and moving forward you can only keep one soft, offensively minded defenseman and Hamilton is clearly better.

I think the plan all along has been to move a D man this spring for depth or winger help regardless of playoffs or not. Young guys are pushing and you need to make space. 2 possibly even 3 of the following 4 defensemen will be on the Flames in two years, Andersson, Kylington, Vallimaki, Fox. You don't move Hamilton (unless it's an unreal return), doubtful you can get much for Giordano now plus him and Hamonic are the only two real physical D man in the group. Meaning Stone, Brodie and Kulak get moved over the next two season. Hopefully we can maximize the return on some of those players.

I cannot really speak to the rumour of young guys not buying in but I could see some truth to it. We are an incredibly soft team without a lot of gravel in their guts and spit in their eyes type players. We definitely need a shift towards a win at all costs mentality but this doesn't mean you blow things up. I want to see more compete from Monahan, Gaudreau , Hamilton and Brodie but these are also very skilled players and some times take the good with the bad. I could see Giordano taking a step back with the emergence of Gaudreau but I think we see that corrected next year.

I think changes were coming regardless of the outcome of this season but I do hope the Flames don't go crazy unless they are really unhappy with certain players. The roster needs a tweak no doubt and we desperately need players to take the next step but we are a better roster than what we showed this year. I hate the idea of becoming a coaching carousel but I see no way forward with this current coaching crew seeing how the past two months have unfolded. Change is over due there.

Are we in for one crazy off season or is it all completely overblown?