[News] Flames only qualify 4 players. 9 go to UFA on July 1st (incl Jooris, Colborne, Ortio)

[Karl]

Originally Posted by Jacks

Not really, they're pretty much all expiring this year. That being said we need to avoid those crap contracts going forward.

Sorry, my bad. I meant during the offseason or during this season before they expire.

[Jacks]

I agree with you, luckily we should be good this season to ride it out though. Next year we drop Wideman, Smid, Engelland, Bollig and Raymond ... that will open a ton of opportunity for us. I wouldn't mind bringing Engelland back for less money but the rest can move on.

[Volatile]

So I see a lot of posters saying Colborne is a great fit for a second or third line centre? Much less people saying second but still a few out there. The other comment was I and other people who dislike Colborne don't actually know what a third liner is. I'm going to have to disagree a bit here and here's why.

With respect to knowing what a third line centre looks like... I look at a guy like Jordan Staal back when he was on the penguins in that 3rd line centre role. That's what I want, maybe even slightly better (I can dream too right?) and that's what I look for when I'm looking at our 3rd line centre position, or any person whos big and on the third line. More so dependable than some prolific goal scorer... Those 20 goals will come if they play the game right, no matter who it is. Colborne hasn't even hit TWENTY so I'm not even sure why we are classifying him as a consistent 20 goal scorer.. he's got close @ 19 once, and only past 15 twice... so he's much more like a 10 goal scorer at most and that may be a stretch. He only hit above 10 when a carrot was dangled too, whether that carrot be trying to make an NHL team, contract or avoid getting put in the AHL again. His top gear is just so underwhelming. I also tend to agree with the other posters and could careless about the goals he got after Hudler got traded, where was his compete when it mattered? It mattered when his contract situation was the driver. That bothers me. Burke said as much if i recall correctly.

When I look at Colborne, not even close to the same comfort level as Staal -- Colborne makes soo many little frustrating mistakes when he has the puck and can be caught out of position quite frequently. I really don't think he's as rare as people are making him out to be? The NHL is trending towards smaller dudes anyway so that large logic while still applies isn't as important as it once was, there are many other characteristics that seem to out weigh height these days. And I'm 6'5" too so it's not like I hate tall people And Colborne isn't a bruiser -- it's not like he's throwing his weight around and crushing people. I'd much rather put Backlund on the third at centre with Ferland and another big bruiser reliable winger to be honest, or even a guy like Andrew Shaw.

Joe's an interesting guy for sure. One thing I think holds him back a bit is his metabolism and body structure. The amount of cals he needs to eat to fill his frame and keep his weight up at his current level is enormous -- he's eating like 10 meals a day. He's on a super special diet just to keep him from skin and bones and when you have to eat that much... it's difficult to keep that going, feel great all the time and be super quick on your feet... now this could certainly fall in the hyperbole category but I really do think it factors in. You look at our long schedule, road games, and having to keep that diet up... It's tough.

I get that he's a good fellow... I just think we need to up our expectations here, especially if we're talking cup run in a few years. He'd be a good fit on a bottom six team as a third line or even second line centre but we need to move on from that. I actually think he'd do well as a third liner on the Oilers and possibly thrive in that role for a few years and hope that he grew with them or would need to move on the same. Am I completely out to lunch here? Look at the last 5 or 6 cup winners -- who was their Colborne? They didn't really have one as far as I can see.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

Here's the scenarios that could take place that cause this to be a mistake:
1) Colborne walks and repeats his production, which is more than his replacement
2) Colborne walks and improves upon his production
3) Colborne walks and declines in production but has a better production than his replacement.

Looking at free agency, there's maybe 2 RWs in Colbornes age bracket (not post-apex) and both of which would receive more salary in the free market than Colborne's arbitration award

Who cares about his replacement if the money saved is used to help get a top 6 RW?

[Calgary4LIfe]

Seems like to me, people are just arguing now because they got backed into a corner.

The 'pro' Colborne crowd (for the most part) are hoping he re-signs at a lower cap hit than what he could have been awarded in arbitration for. Sounds like it has a good chance of happening. That is a win for this crowd.

The 'anti' Colborne crowd seem fine with a one year, cheaper dollar deal than what he could have been awarded in arbitration. Looks like that at least will happen, and even the small possibility of him being completely eliminated from the roster.

Sounds like both sides - for the most part - see this as a positive move. So why the bickering still?

[UKflames]

Will be happy to keep Colborne on a cheaper 'show me' deal but if he walks he can be replaced.

I really hope we do get Ortio signed, as I think we are giving up way to early on him if we let him go. Yes he had an up and down season last year but I can't see many young goalies performing well in that 3 headed monster situation, plus he is still young, goalies don't tend to come good until a lot later than forwards or D, you have to give them longer to mature. Sign him as the back up imo.

[Goodlad]

Originally Posted by Volatile

So I see a lot of posters saying Colborne is a great fit for a second or third line centre? Much less people saying second but still a few out there. The other comment was I and other people who dislike Colborne don't actually know what a third liner is. I'm going to have to disagree a bit here and here's why.

With respect to knowing what a third line centre looks like... I look at a guy like Jordan Staal back when he was on the penguins in that 3rd line centre role. That's what I want, maybe even slightly better (I can dream too right?) and that's what I look for when I'm looking at our 3rd line centre position, or any person whos big and on the third line. More so dependable than some prolific goal scorer... Those 20 goals will come if they play the game right, no matter who it is. Colborne hasn't even hit TWENTY so I'm not even sure why we are classifying him as a consistent 20 goal scorer.. he's got close @ 19 once, and only past 15 twice... so he's much more like a 10 goal scorer at most and that may be a stretch. He only hit above 10 when a carrot was dangled too, whether that carrot be trying to make an NHL team, contract or avoid getting put in the AHL again. His top gear is just so underwhelming. I also tend to agree with the other posters and could careless about the goals he got after Hudler got traded, where was his compete when it mattered? It mattered when his contract situation was the driver. That bothers me. Burke said as much if i recall correctly.

I don't think anyone considers Colborne a center at this point, so comparisons to Staal are moot. We have Monahan, Bennett, and Backlund as the top 3 centers.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

So why the bickering still?

Because whipping boys polarize. Once you make that status there is no coming back. It doesn't matter what you do, how positive a contribution you make, you're the whipping boy and everything you do is wrong. I mean, his diet is even wrong to one poster!

Seriously, Joe Colborne is one of the smaller problems facing this team. With contracts like Wideman, Englelland, Smid, Stajan, and to a lesser extent Bouma, on the team, Colborne is not a big deal. He can play in more situations than most on the team and he is way more effective that his detractors like to say. Colborne is a 3rd line player, and if he is paid like one the complaints should disappear. Will they? No. Because Colborne has achieved the whipping boy status.

[Coach]

This question may have been asked and answered already in this mess, but why is it that Gaudreau and Monahan can get QOs without getting their actual contracts? The QO is just a minimum isn't it? Don't they have to sign them to their new big deals?

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by MattyC

This question may have been asked and answered already in this mess, but why is it that Gaudreau and Monahan can get QOs without getting their actual contracts? The QO is just a minimum isn't it? Don't they have to sign them to their new big deals?

Qualifying just retains their rights. They can accept the QO, which won't happen, or continue to work on new deals. Theyll still get new contracts,t his just makes sure they're flames property regardless rather than going unrestricted

[StrykerSteve]

They reject their qualifying offers and continue to negotiate. This is merely the part of the process that prevents them from becoming UFAs.

Edit - beaten like a rented mule.

[EldrickOnIce]

The only other deadline, except training camp or season start, wrt those two is Monahan being eligible to sign an offer sheet after July 1, while Gaudreau is not eligible to.
Ideally you would like Monahan's done prior to that, though I expect that won't happen.

[FlameZilla]

I suppose one negative consequence of the huge haul of prospects the Flames acquired in the draft is that there could be a numbers game contracts-wise within the next couple of years.

I genuinely appreciate Treliving's ruthlessness in this situation. No messing about, no emotional aspect to this decision.

[Roof-Daddy]

Had time to digest this a bit, and I have to say I like the almost ruthless no nonsense approach here. Can't waste contract spots on guys if you don't see them taking the next step, and if you feel you are going to get smoked in arbitration for depth players then this approach is not a bad idea, especially with Jooris and Ortio.

Colborne is obviously a bit more risky than those other too, but you could certainly make the argument that losing him for nothing would be better than over paying him I guess. Especially with the cap crunch the Flames are facing right now. Still hoping they work something out though and that his last half of last season was really him finding his groove and not a flash in the pan.

[Robo]

Weird the lack of news we are hearing with gaudreau and monahan

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Robo

Weird the lack of news we are hearing with gaudreau and monahan

Yeah I find it strange too. I don't think BT will let it get to this point, but the thought of someone offersheeting Gaudreau with like $9 mil makes me sick.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Yeah I find it strange too. I don't think BT will let it get to this point, but the thought of someone offersheeting Gaudreau with like $9 mil makes me sick.

Gaudreau is not eligible to sign an offer sheet.
Monahan is

[IliketoPuck]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Yeah I find it strange too. I don't think BT will let it get to this point, but the thought of someone offersheeting Gaudreau with like $9 mil makes me sick.

Gaudreau isn't eligible to receive an offer sheet IIRC.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Seems like to me, people are just arguing now because they got backed into a corner.

The 'pro' Colborne crowd (for the most part) are hoping he re-signs at a lower cap hit than what he could have been awarded in arbitration for. Sounds like it has a good chance of happening. That is a win for this crowd.

The 'anti' Colborne crowd seem fine with a one year, cheaper dollar deal than what he could have been awarded in arbitration. Looks like that at least will happen, and even the small possibility of him being completely eliminated from the roster.

Sounds like both sides - for the most part - see this as a positive move. So why the bickering still?

I'm not a big Colborne fan but I don't see the incentive on his part to sign with the Flames now. Sure he can play at home but some GM will overpay him in term and AAV simply because he is a big body and finally put up some points last year.

Methinks Joe is done as a Flame.

[Robo]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Yeah I find it strange too. I don't think BT will let it get to this point, but the thought of someone offersheeting Gaudreau with like $9 mil makes me sick.

Yeah I'm more worried about monahan as gaudreau can't receive offer sheets although I'm not sure about that Benning guy he is kinda a rebel without a cause I could see him throwing gaudreau an offer sheet