Canada Post likely will be locked out/on strike - July 2

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Swarly

Sounds like you may be in one of the good unions then. Our shop stewards didnt volunteer their time, they did most of that stuff during the day on site. most unions are scum, you're in one of the few but the majority ruin it for everyone.

Is it possible that maybe it's just the majority of unions you've worked in? Unless you've worked the majority of unions out there. Labelling the majority of union based on such a small sample size doesn't seem like either a fair or well informed statement

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

I meant Ovechkin chose to represent himself when negotiating with his employer for his salary and working conditions. He didn't use an agent.

Good thing he has his union there to back him if he made a mistake then eh?

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by V

The union will never punish the best, but the framework will. Anyone that produces too many widgets is bound to make his brothers look bad, and that gets shut down pretty quickly by said brothers. You work to the lowest common denominator or you're ostracized. I've worked with 5 different unions in Alberta. Based on what I've heard, Alberta can't touch BC when it comes to militant poorly functioning unions.

I think you're trying to pass your perceptions as facts. Could someone be influenced by his coworkers for being a "brown noser" or making everyone else look lazy? Yup it can happen, and does, in both union and non union workplaces. And I've never seen anyone fired for being over productive but I have seen a number of disciplines and terminations for disruption of the workforce for the example you gave. If an employee wants to do more, all the power too him, a lot of contracts have incentives in place promoting such cases. If someone is slowing down because he's worried what others might think, he should take a second and ask himself what he thinks and stop worrying about others, since he isn't doing anything against his contract or that violates union rules.

Edit: and Alberta can't touch a lot of provinces on a lot of things, employee rights, health care systems, economic stability...

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by Swarly

well its the internet so I'm not going into detail and I don't personally know them all. But fact remains that guy without a union would be fired justly as he should have been, with a union there are extra hoops to jump and he walked away with a 3 day suspension or something.

Sounds like you may be in one of the good unions then. Our shop stewards didnt volunteer their time, they did most of that stuff during the day on site. most unions are scum, you're in one of the few but the majority ruin it for everyone.

You don't know all the facts yet you think he should have been fired? Cmon, man. Jesus.

Further, if he got a 3 day suspension, how did the union protect him? If the company wasn't willing to fire him to begin with, the union played no roll in protecting his job. If you mean the extra hoops to jump through are things like due process, just cause, investigation, etc, those are GREAT hoops every workplace needs.

Originally Posted by V

The union will never punish the best, but the framework will. Anyone that produces too many widgets is bound to make his brothers look bad, and that gets shut down pretty quickly by said brothers. You work to the lowest common denominator or you're ostracized. I've worked with 5 different unions in Alberta. Based on what I've heard, Alberta can't touch BC when it comes to militant poorly functioning unions.

I've literally never seen this. I have been a witness to the union telling people not to use their free time, unpaid, to come in and do work for free to catch up with the norm or get ahead. This is a common sense suggestion. Unless you think people should work for free on their time off to meet metrics?

the above 2 posts really demonstrate a total lack of understanding how unions actually work. People watching Hoffa or other stupid crime movies and think unions are this huge bloated ring of fat Italians who are invincible on the floor from management (LOL) and get sweet union gigs and kick backs.

99.99% of Union activists are people who punch the clock 40 hours a week, go to union meetings, and spend their own time supporting their members and fellow workers and fight for their rights on the workplace floor. Be it by doing grievances, arbitrations, or driving a member to rehab. Or maybe its passing the collection hat around for someone whos fiance just died. or maybe its just being someone to talk to when the company is threatening to terminate them for having a scuffle with their inept manager.

[V]

Originally Posted by Resurrection

I've literally never seen this.

I'm literally not surprised. You come across as a kid with exactly zero experience, so I would be literally astounded if you had any anecdotal experience worth sharing.

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by V

I'm literally not surprised. You come across as a kid with exactly zero experience, so I would be literally astounded if you had any anecdotal experience worth sharing.

I probably have a lot more experience than you. And judging by your opinions, I would be willing to wager you've been no where near a unionized shop floor. Or perhaps you've been with 5 unions because you keep getting fired for being useless, and those evil unions cant get you your job back.

Who knows.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Swarly

well its the internet so I'm not going into detail and I don't personally know them all. But fact remains that guy without a union would be fired justly as he should have been, with a union there are extra hoops to jump and he walked away with a 3 day suspension

You don't know all the facts yet feel he should have been terminated? Geez what if God forbid she was lying? I hope she wasn't and would hope he be held accountable if he was at fault but people still need due process. Had he not been given that he could sue, with or without a union, for a number of things.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Resurrection

I probably have a lot more experience than you. And judging by your opinions, I would be willing to wager you've been no where near a unionized shop floor. Or perhaps you've been with 5 unions because you keep getting fired for being useless, and those evil unions cant get you your job back.

Who knows.

Sorry, knowing V, I had to quote this so you cant change it!

[V]

Originally Posted by Resurrection

I probably have a lot more experience than you. And judging by your opinions, I would be willing to wager you've been no where near a unionized shop floor. Or perhaps you've been with 5 unions because you keep getting fired for being useless, and those evil unions cant get you your job back.

Who knows.

20 years both in and with unions. I've been at the table for collective bargaining. And right now I manage a number of department with employees represented by three of those unions. So yeah, I have an idea how this works.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Resurrection

I probably have a lot more experience than you. And judging by your opinions, I would be willing to wager you've been no where near a unionized shop floor. Or perhaps you've been with 5 unions because you keep getting fired for being useless, and those evil unions cant get you your job back.

Who knows.

This is astonishingly inappropriate.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by V

The union will never punish the best, but the framework will. Anyone that produces too many widgets is bound to make his brothers look bad, and that gets shut down pretty quickly by said brothers. You work to the lowest common denominator or you're ostracized. I've worked with 5 different unions in Alberta. Based on what I've heard, Alberta can't touch BC when it comes to militant poorly functioning unions.

Yup. I know numerous people who were told, flat out, to slow down because they were making other union members look bad.

And as far as militants in BC vs. Alberta, just look back to the Telus strike after it absorbed BCTel. Alberta strikers largely - and laughably - pretended they were locked out. In BC though, constant vandalism, property destruction, threats, intimidation, harassment. Buddy of mine was a non-union Telus employee back then. He got put out on the front lines to keep the company going, and his progress went like this: At first, crazy overtime because there were far fewer people doing the job. Then they caught up in Alberta and he wasn't working OT anymore. So they sent him to BC, where they again got caught up fairly quickly. Then the union settled. I tend to believe it was because Telus was starting to realize it didn't actually need so many union people doing those jobs. It just needed workers who actually did their jobs.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Resurrection

I probably have a lot more experience than you. And judging by your opinions, I would be willing to wager you've been no where near a unionized shop floor. Or perhaps you've been with 5 unions because you keep getting fired for being useless, and those evil unions cant get you your job back.

Who knows.

I love how you are a living, breathing example of everything wrong with union mentality.

[V]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

I think you're trying to pass your perceptions as facts. Could someone be influenced by his coworkers for being a "brown noser" or making everyone else look lazy? Yup it can happen, and does, in both union and non union workplaces. And I've never seen anyone fired for being over productive but I have seen a number of disciplines and terminations for disruption of the workforce for the example you gave. If an employee wants to do more, all the power too him, a lot of contracts have incentives in place promoting such cases. If someone is slowing down because he's worried what others might think, he should take a second and ask himself what he thinks and stop worrying about others, since he isn't doing anything against his contract or that violates union rules.

Edit: and Alberta can't touch a lot of provinces on a lot of things, employee rights, health care systems, economic stability...

I'm probably passing my experience off as fact. That's fair. But I've seen it in every union I've been involved with. It's fair to say the union doesn't force that to happen, but I think the way things are set up, there's a pretty high probability it'll happen. Also, I should condition that by saying the larger the union is, and the group of workers is, the higher the odds are of this happening. Small groups with good managers will typically produce pretty solid results. Again, that's my experience.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

I love how you are a living, breathing example of everything wrong with union mentality.

In contrast, Iggy_oi is representing the pro-union side of things pretty reasonably and cordially, to give credit where it's due.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Resurrection

I probably have a lot more experience than you. And judging by your opinions, I would be willing to wager you've been no where near a unionized shop floor. Or perhaps you've been with 5 unions because you keep getting fired for being useless, and those evil unions cant get you your job back.

Who knows.

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by V

20 years both in and with unions. I've been at the table for collective bargaining. And right now I manage a number of department with employees represented by three of those unions. So yeah, I have an idea how this works.

Oh, someone in management is bashing unions. Fascinating.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by V

I'm probably passing my experience off as fact. That's fair. But I've seen it in every union I've been involved with. It's fair to say the union doesn't force that to happen, but I think the way things are set up, there's a pretty high probability it'll happen. Also, I should condition that by saying the larger the union is, and the group of workers is, the higher the odds are of this happening. Small groups with good managers will typically produce pretty solid results. Again, that's my experience.

Have you noticed historical changes in union work behaviour?

I read something about how technical competency among union workers in the USPS was far higher in the 1940s then it was today. Something probably to do with how workers felt lucky/proud to be union as opposed to entitled.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Resurrection

Oh, someone in management is bashing unions. Fascinating.

Oh, someone in unions is bashing management. Fascinating.

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Oh, someone in unions is bashing management. Fascinating.

Where am I bashing management? I'm defending unions and the purpose they serve.

[V]

Originally Posted by Resurrection

Oh, someone in management is bashing unions. Fascinating.

Where did I bash unions? I quite like a number of the unions I work with.

I do think it's telling that you'd see this as bashing, though. A grownup like iggy oi is able to continue the discussion, while you come off petulant, demeaning, ignorant and childish. The contrast is startling.