Subban arbitration UPDATE: Signs 8 year/72 million deal

[jemjey]

Originally Posted by New Era

herp a derp derp.

I don't see how PK could win the Norris if he's making as many bad plays as he does good ones.

Obviously, he's not the best defensively. But he's got a bomb of a shot, skates great, and is great on the PP. Most important in my eyes, his game is improving.

Saying he is Dion Phaneuf? go back under the bridge.

Seems to me you're trying desperately to defend your overly exaggerated statements. Ok we get it, you don't like him. But don't try to pass your opinion off as fact.

[Yoho]

Subban now makes 5 mil more a season than Gio.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by Yoho

Subban now makes 5 mil more a season than Gio.

Wonder what Giordano would get now if he was an UFA. Last season he was great, but he hasn't had consecutive great seasons. He is already 30 years old. Maybe a team would give him $39mill over 6 years (AAV 6.5).

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Fire

Wonder what Giordano would get now if he was an UFA. Last season he was great, but he hasn't had consecutive great seasons. He is already 30 years old. Maybe a team would give him $39mill over 6 years (AAV 6.5).

That's a pretty good guess, I could see 7m x5 if he has 2 more seasons like the last. Maybe even more, who knows?

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by FireGilbert

This makes the Erik Karlsson contract look amazing. The Sens were smart to sign him to a long term deal instead of going the Montreal route with the bridge contract.

I guess it depends on how much better you think Karlsson is, but by the time Karlsson's contract is up they will have almost made negligible difference in terms of actual cash at the time. Not that Ottawa is much better but Subban will take a little bit bigger hit on taxes and has made significantly less than Karlsson until this point in their careers. Of course Subban will still have 3 years left on his contract.

Karlsson's cap will be significantly lower than Subban's for the next couple seasons now but Ottawa isn't anywhere close to a cap-team, so that makes no difference to them. And I highly doubt that Ottawa will become a cap-team over the next couple seasons.

The biggest con for Ottawa is Karlsson, barring injuries, will be a freshly turned 29 year old UFA at the end of the contract and looking for another hefty one. A bridge contract like Subban's would have allowed them to sign him for a couple additional years, pretty much encompassing his prime years, before he became a free agent.

I think I'm still a fan of the bridge contract.

[driveway]

One of the things that's going to work out well for PK Subban is that he will be a UFA in 2022. The NHL's TV deal with NBC expires in 2021, so 2021-22 will be the first year of whatever new deal they sign for American TV rights. The last deal, signed in 2011, was a $2 billion dollar deal. If the league continues to grow at the rate it has been, it's entirely possible the league will be getting more than the $5 billion Rogers paid for Canadian rights.

That will be a huge increase to the Salary Cap, and if PK continues to play as a top-end defenceman, it's entirely possible he'll get another four or five years at $9 million or more a season.

Some other things: I hope to Christ we one day have to pay TJ Brodie like this. If he ends up being worth that much money at the end of his next deal, we'll be one of the best teams in the conference for sure.

PK Subban is a very good possession player. His Corsi Relative numbers for the last four years have been +4.9%; +2.5%; +5.5%; +5.1%.

Comparing that to the three cheaper defencemen who were touted as being "better defensively" than Subban:
Vlassic: +0.4, +1.3, +3.9, +7.1
Bouwmeester: -1.9, -2.8, -2.8, +1.2,
Hamhuis: +3.9, +3.4, +3.7, +0.3

Now, Corsi Relative obviously doesn't tell the whole story in terms of defence. But it's clear that Subban has been consistently better than all three of those guys in terms of possession numbers, except for Vlassic last year.

It's also very much worth noting that all three of Vlassic, Bouwmeester, and Hamhuis' numbers get significantly worse in the postseason, whereas Subban's only dropped slightly in 2013-14 and actually took a huge jump up in 2012-13.

Also, it's cool to note that TJ Brodie has better Corsi Relative numbers than all four of those players.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by driveway

Also, it's cool to note that TJ Brodie has better Corsi Relative numbers than all four of those players.

Meh, only goes to show how poor that stat really is. It, like say even +/-, can be used in the right situation but under no circumstances was Brodie anywhere close to the quality player any of those guys were (even Hamhuis).

Nothing against Brodie though, those are just exceptional players in their own right.

[Arya Stark]

Originally Posted by New Era

How so? Subban is a great offensive defenseman but a horrible defensive defenseman. He's very much like Letang in Pittsburgh. He'll win you some games, but he'll lose you just as many. Let's put it to you this way. Who would you want on your team? Paul Coffey or Al MacInnis? I'll pass on Coffey and take MacInnis. Same thing goes with Subban. I'll take quite a few defenders over Subban, especially at $9 million a season. That's crazy money for a player like that.

Horrible defensively? I don't think that is fair at all. I would say he is above average and top 3 offensive defencemen in the game.

This was a fair deal to both sides.

[Arya Stark]

And people pointing to the Olympics like that matters that he didn't play much.

Team Canada also left off the bum Crosby...Team Canada doesn't always pick the best players to play, they pick the best team to play a certain way. You can't have too much of the same player. I don't think of that as a slight to Subban at all.

[Point Blank]

I'd take Subban over any of those three other defensemen mentioned, even 2 or 3 of them.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Arya Stark

Horrible defensively? I don't think that is fair at all. I would say he is above average and top 3 offensive defencemen in the game.

This was a fair deal to both sides.

Hey New Era thought Al MacInnis was good defensively, some shining beacon of defensive prowess over Paul Coffey when in reality Subban is a modern day MacInnis and Karlsson is a modern day Coffey and neither are modern day Robinson's. It is hard to take seriously someone who thought Big Al was some sort of elite defensive dman.

[BigTuna]

I think players in big markets get a little too much criticism for defensive play. Weber has it made in Nashville. Hell, Rick Nash was somehow a franchise player you build around for a decade in Columbus. Boumeester was considered a superstar in Florida until more people saw him in Calgary.

Subban is fine defensively. He's young. healthy, has won a Norris and played fantastic in the playoffs leading his team to the conference finals. If you'd rather build around a Vlasic, well good for you. Enjoy...

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by New Era

How so? Subban is a great offensive defenseman but a horrible defensive defenseman. He's very much like Letang in Pittsburgh. He'll win you some games, but he'll lose you just as many. Let's put it to you this way. Who would you want on your team? Paul Coffey or Al MacInnis? I'll pass on Coffey and take MacInnis. Same thing goes with Subban. I'll take quite a few defenders over Subban, especially at $9 million a season. That's crazy money for a player like that.

You can make all the excuses about why he went you want, but "horrible defensive defencemen" do not get selected to play for Canada at the Olympics. Full stop.

Subban is a great offensive defencemen and a decent defensive one. Not at the top end yet, but we're not talking about Justin Schultz or Dion Phaneuf here.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by driveway

One of the things that's going to work out well for PK Subban is that he will be a UFA in 2022. The NHL's TV deal with NBC expires in 2021, so 2021-22 will be the first year of whatever new deal they sign for American TV rights. The last deal, signed in 2011, was a $2 billion dollar deal. If the league continues to grow at the rate it has been, it's entirely possible the league will be getting more than the $5 billion Rogers paid for Canadian rights.

That will be a huge increase to the Salary Cap, and if PK continues to play as a top-end defenceman, it's entirely possible he'll get another four or five years at $9 million or more a season.

Some other things: I hope to Christ we one day have to pay TJ Brodie like this. If he ends up being worth that much money at the end of his next deal, we'll be one of the best teams in the conference for sure.

PK Subban is a very good possession player. His Corsi Relative numbers for the last four years have been +4.9%; +2.5%; +5.5%; +5.1%.

Comparing that to the three cheaper defencemen who were touted as being "better defensively" than Subban:
Vlassic: +0.4, +1.3, +3.9, +7.1
Bouwmeester: -1.9, -2.8, -2.8, +1.2,
Hamhuis: +3.9, +3.4, +3.7, +0.3

Now, Corsi Relative obviously doesn't tell the whole story in terms of defence. But it's clear that Subban has been consistently better than all three of those guys in terms of possession numbers, except for Vlassic last year.

It's also very much worth noting that all three of Vlassic, Bouwmeester, and Hamhuis' numbers get significantly worse in the postseason, whereas Subban's only dropped slightly in 2013-14 and actually took a huge jump up in 2012-13.

Also, it's cool to note that TJ Brodie has better Corsi Relative numbers than all four of those players.

And a flawed thing about this "Cheaper" argument is, if you want to win, you need those star players. So you'll have to pay them. Sure Hamhuis looks like a really nice deal, but do you want him being your #1 guy?

Subban led his team to playoff success. Those 3 did not.

If you want to save money in 2014', cut the cost by getting cheap supporting players that are easily replaced. Do not cut corners with core players.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by jemjey

I don't see how PK could win the Norris if he's making as many bad plays as he does good ones.

Obviously, he's not the best defensively. But he's got a bomb of a shot, skates great, and is great on the PP. Most important in my eyes, his game is improving.

Saying he is Dion Phaneuf? go back under the bridge.

Seems to me you're trying desperately to defend your overly exaggerated statements. Ok we get it, you don't like him. But don't try to pass your opinion off as fact.

And Dion Phaneuf is very good defensively. His defensive numbers are solid.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

And Dion Phaneuf is very good defensively. His defensive numbers are solid.

Ohh I get it now. This is a Leaf Fan Parody Account. Bravo!

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by Sidney Crosby's Hat

Ohh I get it now. This is a Leaf Fan Parody Account. Bravo!

Just big hyperbole. Dion was shutting down the top NHl stars all season.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

Just big hyperbole. Dion was shutting down the top NHl stars all season.

Yup, all season, that is why he was a key reason why the Leafs had that epic collapse at the end of the year and missed the playoffs. Phaneuf looked ok for the first half of the season but the 2nd half he was terrible.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Yup, all season, that is why he was a key reason why the Leafs had that epic collapse at the end of the year and missed the playoffs. Phaneuf looked ok for the first half of the season but the 2nd half he was terrible.

He looked far better than "Okay", he looked great. Shutting down the top NHL stars nightly. He plays the toughest minutes in the NHL. There are a ton of D-Men you think are "Better" who would crumble in his role.

The entire team looked gassed. It'll be better next season with more depth and Carlyle actually playing a 4th line.

[CalgaryFan1988]

Nothing like a leaf fan changing every thread into a praise Phaneuf thread.