[Rumour] Tallon Actively Shopping 1st Overall Pick in 2014 Draft

[Wolfman]

Originally Posted by theoforever

I know enough not to give up a sure thing like Brodie most likely #3 guy for magic beans. If i had 2 or 3 Brodies then lets take the gamble perhaps.
As for the Ekblad's potential I'm just going by what the experts are saying.
I saw him a couple of times and went, not bad.

I wouldn't trade Brodie either. Experts didn't pick Keith and Weber to be franchise defensemen before they were drafted in the 2nd round. Drafting isn't easy, but to say a kid will or won't be something is a bold statement. Time will tell like it always does. That's why GM's and scouts get paid the big bucks to make those decisions.

[Monahan23]

Originally Posted by Husky

The Flames cannot afford to trade Brodie at this point. The Flames also need a D like Ekblad as well.

Both D would actually (on paper) compliment each other very well.

To move up 3 spots I could see 4th overall plus Backlund being enough.

If its not, I wouldn't chase the trade.

Backlund probably wouldn't be enough because Florida has a centre surplus, so maybe Glencross and a pick but he wouldn't want to waive. Florida would trade to get better now. So I'm sure they'd be asking Gio + 4th which is ridiculous.

[Ashasx]

I remember before the 2012 draft some media experts thought it would be a good idea for Montreal to trade the 3rd overall + Subban for Edmonton's 1st overall pick.

[ricardodw]

This whole discussion is based on whether the Panthers and Flames and Oilers have different draft lists and rate the top 4 differently.

If Burke and/or Lowe has Ekblad >>>>>>> Bennett and/or Draisaitl and Tallon has them all about equal then there is a likely trade.

You don't win Stanley cups without a Doughty, Pronger, Niedermeyer, Boyle, Keith , Lidstrom, Gonchar, Chara ..... The Flames have great d-men for the #2 and 3 spots on a deep playoff roster.... how will they get a true #1 D-man?

From Florida's prospective if the top 4 are a toss up then it is a no lose situation to get Edmonton and Calgary to bid up to kick in an asset.

There is a limit to what sort of asset the Flames will be willing to give up...... NOT going to be Brodie and #4 but since Feaster left the Flames really deep in small skilled prospects (Baertschi, Granlund, Byron, Gaudreau) all fighting to replace Cammalleri and Hudler) the Flames have to be worried that over the next 2 years they will lose 1 or 2 of these guys for a 4th round pick .... like the Leafs lost Colbourne.

Right now Colbourne is really close to being an untouchable asset on the Flames ( a better first round pick than Baertschi) but they were able to pick him up for 4th round pick.

Backlund emerging as a legitimate player also took a roster spot away from the smurfs. Burke seemed ready to trade Backlund away likely for a more truculent player until Backlund stepped up his play.

Looking down the road is Baertschi worth a 1st round pick or a 4th round pick? If Baertschi spends any time next year in the AHL chances are he will be a lot closer to a 4th round pick.

If the Oilers hold tight and don't panic offering Yakapov then Baertschi might be enough to get the deal done.

Optionally would the Flames #4 this year and Baertschi be enough to get Seth Jones out of Nashville? Or Trouba out of Winnipeg? Not likely.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by Monahan23

Backlund probably wouldn't be enough because Florida has a centre surplus, so maybe Glencross and a pick but he wouldn't want to waive. Florida would trade to get better now. So I'm sure they'd be asking Gio + 4th which is ridiculous.

I really don't see the conversation going this way at all.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I remember before the 2012 draft some media experts thought it would be a good idea for Montreal to trade the 3rd overall + Subban for Edmonton's 1st overall pick.

Only idiots. Some media suffer from the same over-valuing of picks that fans do.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Don't understand this argument at all. He doesn't dominate solely because of his size. He has skill, leadership, character, hockey sense, an elite point shot, etc. And do you think all NHLers are 3 inches bigger than junior players? He's dominating against a lot of kids two years older than him. He'll still have a size advantage at the NHL level. What's the average NHLer? 6'0? 6'1? He's several inches taller and going to be quite a big heavier than the average NHLer. So he'll still have a big size and strength advantage on the majority of players in the NHL. He also proved himself well against the best kids a year or two older than him in the World Juniors this year. He's ahead of the curve developmentally.

Why would you be more skeptical of big, skilled players than small skilled players? The smaller players have a lot more to overcome and prove. Ekblad has NHL size and strength now, how that can be construed as a negative is bewildering to me. It's a strength, it's a positive, it's one of his many good assets. It's not a reason to doubt his game will translate. That's just silly talk.

I've seen this argument a lot on this board and it is completely lacking in logic to me. It shows that you can find a negative wherever you want to find one. Did Pronger's size fail to translate at the next level? How about Regehr? Getzlaf dominated junior when he wanted to and was a man amongst boys. Guess what? He does the same at the NHL and Olympic level. Did Nash bust because he was so much bigger than his peers in junior? Where are all these big/strong, skilled players who are contenders for the #1 pick but failed to translate to the NHL because they only dominated junior because of their size? For how often you see this argument there must be dozens if not hundreds of examples you should be able to provide.

I call BS. Please try and provide some examples of this theory because I can't really think of anybody comparable who failed due to dominating junior because of size. Makes little to no sense to me.

Whoa, what is he, your cousin or something?

I'm not more skeptical of big skilled players than small skilled, players, I dont know where you got that idea from, I've just never been so impressed with Ekblad that I think the team should start considering crazy deals to move up 3 spots in the draft.

[Mith]

In my opinion I don't think it's worth giving up assets at the moment to move up 2 spots. The top 10 is pretty bereft with defense men, but that doesn't mean we can't get a dman next year, or later in the draft.

Giving up defense to get defense is just a circle jerk. You take one of the top 3 centers if we get them and move on. The difference between moving up likely isn't worth the assets we'd have to give up to get the kid.

I'm happy picking any one of the top 5. Whatever we get, we're going to get some serious talent to shore up what we have. None of the kids in the top 5 are runts (All over 6 feet) and none are slackers in their relevant skill sets either. I think the discussion is moot, unless for some reason we can completely rob Florida.

We're not talking about a Crosby vs #2 pick situation, we're talking about a Good defense man or a good forward, either way it'll be just fine.

[firebird]

I just don't understand most of the posts in this thread, it's been stated many times that Florida wants an established NHLer to mentor all the young players they already have. Our young players or draft picks will be nothing more than a throw in on top of who they really want. I think it's one of Hudler, Stajan, or Wideman plus a 2nd or 3rd pick or B prospect. Maybe they're not enough to get the first overall, but I don't think the difference in 1st to 4th this year is worth much more on our end, and not sure the established guys we're willing to move is worth it for Florida, but Florida is NOT looking for young players or picks as the main piece going back to Florida.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by firebird

I just don't understand most of the posts in this thread, it's been stated many times that Florida wants an established NHLer to mentor all the young players they already have. Our young players or draft picks will be nothing more than a throw in on top of who they really want. I think it's one of Hudler, Stajan, or Wideman plus a 2nd or 3rd pick or B prospect. Maybe they're not enough to get the first overall, but I don't think the difference in 1st to 4th this year is worth much more on our end, and not sure the established guys we're willing to move is worth it for Florida, but Florida is NOT looking for young players or picks as the main piece going back to Florida.

And its been well established that Dennis Wideman and Chris Butler are probably not going to be sufficient to make this sale...

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Locke

Whoa, what is he, your cousin or something?

I'm not more skeptical of big skilled players than small skilled, players, I dont know where you got that idea from, I've just never been so impressed with Ekblad that I think the team should start considering crazy deals to move up 3 spots in the draft.

I got that idea from your argument in the post I quoted. You know where you said you were worried his game wont translate because he's bigger and stronger than most junior players.

If you don't like Ekblad that's totally cool and I take no issue with that. But this argument about players not translating because of their size advantage is a poor argument lacking any sort of historical backing. I see it occasionally and I'm going to challenge it every time.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

I got that idea from your argument in the post I quoted. You know where you said you were worried his game wont translate because he's bigger and stronger than most junior players.

If you don't like Ekblad that's totally cool and I take no issue with that. But this argument about players not translating because of their size advantage is a poor argument lacking any sort of historical backing. I see it occasionally and I'm going to challenge it every time.

Fair enough. I guess we'll see.

[Rick M.]

Originally Posted by Husky

The Flames cannot afford to trade Brodie at this point. The Flames also need a D like Ekblad as well.

Both D would actually (on paper) compliment each other very well.

To move up 3 spots I could see 4th overall plus Backlund being enough.

If its not, I wouldn't chase the trade.

Obviously Tallon sees the first few picks as players of comparable value. Hence, to get a player like Backlund plus one of the interchangeable best draft picks is a win for him. Personally, I quite like Backlund and wouldn't make this deal. I think we'll get as good a player with a 4th as we'll get at number 1. The only advantage of having the first overall pick is to be sure to get our guy. I'm not sure that I wouldn't take one of the Sams instead of Ekblad if I had the first pick.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Husky

The Flames cannot afford to trade Brodie at this point. The Flames also need a D like Ekblad as well.

Both D would actually (on paper) compliment each other very well.

To move up 3 spots I could see 4th overall plus Backlund being enough.

If its not, I wouldn't chase the trade.

We're just not at a point where we can start turning 2 assets into 1.

The Flames should draft Draisaitl, Bennett or Reinhart - whichever is available at #4.

Next year's draft, a likely top 5 pick again, has some very good d-men available projected to go around there. Unless we finish with the 1st or 2nd overall (McDavid/Eichel), there's a very good chance we end up with a top-end d-man.

I get that everyone is always searching for a shortcut, but the only real solution here is to be patient. Stop treating every prospect (Baertschi, Monahan, Gaudreau) as a savior, and just watch as the team takes positive steps and continues to build a portfolio of young, high-end, hard-working talent. Emptying the bank prematurely can be absolutely toxic to a rebuild (as can poor drafting, as we've seen in Edmonton - who have failed to develop any real prospects unless they're drafted with their 1st rounders).

[puckluck2]

Originally Posted by the2bears

I don't get this: you don't think there's a "considerable difference between 1-4" and wouldn't make the deal. But Florida laughs because of what? They think there's a considerable difference and Baertschi doesn't cover the gap?

What's hard to understand? Even if Florida does feel the same they've got the willy wonka golden ticket and another team might really favor a player and give up a lot for that first overall pick.

Personally I wouldn't make that trade but I don't even think Florida considers it anyways. That's not a great package for the first overall pick.

[Erick Estrada]

Wow 16 pages. When's the last time a 1st overall pick has been traded? I think this is simply a GM doing what any good GM would do in this situation in gauging what they could fetch for the pick and the scenarios of trading down prior to the draft to get a feeling. Of all the teams the only one I can really see seriously contemplating trading up is the Oilers as they probably think Ekblad is their missing piece and could possible send Yakupov over in some sort of deal. In the end I believe the Panthers will draft Ekblad after passing over Jones last season.

[dustygoon]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I'm not convinced that the 1st overall this year is worth significantly more than the 4th. From many of the discussions on here, it sounds like a few of the top 5 prospects this year could make a case for going #1 overall.

Agree. Dale "the best talent evaluator" Talon might be thinking of trading down within top 5 since he is indifferent amongst those picks. If Deadmonton needs Ekblad, then maybe a player + 1st or something like that gets it done

[Dan403]

This thread is really bad. The offers completely miss the point.


If Tallon is shopping the pick, He's shopping it because he needs to make the playoffs THIS YEAR.

That means that he is NOT INTERESTED in trading down, draft picks or prospects.

He needs PLAYERS. Established players who will make the difference between PLAYOFFS 2015 and Golf.

Every post that suggests offering our first, or seconds or prospects is completely off the mark.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by Dan403

This thread is really bad. The offers completely miss the point.


If Tallon is shopping the pick, He's shopping it because he needs to make the playoffs THIS YEAR.

That means that he is NOT INTERESTED in trading down, draft picks or prospects.

He needs PLAYERS. Established players who will make the difference between PLAYOFFS 2015 and Golf.

Every post that suggests offering our first, or seconds or prospects is completely off the mark.

Oh hey Dave! Welcome to CP!

[Wolfman]

Originally Posted by strombad

Oh hey Dave! Welcome to CP!

Dave's not here man