[News] Friedman: Feaster/Flames are not going to blow it up

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Poe969

Why on earth do you want Hartley to stay on with the team??? Do you want to see how good of a third line player Reinhart is?

Why wouldn't you? Guy is a proven winner everywhere he has coached. What the hell has Ruff ever won? Nothing.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Joborule

Newsflash, we already are.

Burke would be a MASSIVE improvement over Feaster/King because he actually has lengthy experience in the league and has been successful in knowing how to draft and make deals to build competitive hockey teams. We need someone that understands a roadmap, and how to execute it. Otherwise we'll be like the Oilers for years to come.

You mean the same Brian Burke that traded what amounted to Tyler Seguin and Dougie Hamilton for Phil Kessel? Ya, pure brilliance. People complain on here about Feaster talking too much and fans want to bring in Tubby McBlowhard? Jesus, even the fan base is becoming a gong show.

[moon]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

The attention from the national media only highlights how supine our own media are. Reporters in other NHL cities - in Toronto, Boston, New York, Montreal - hold nothing back when it comes to assessing the team's management and holding their feet to the fire. It took a long time for the media in Calgary to question Sutter's handling of the team. And they have never taken upper management to task. Where are the columns by George Johnson or Scott Cruikshank questioning the direction of this franchise? Duhatscheck has recently started to become more critical, but he's more of a national than a local media now.

I don't know if it's King's connections with Calgary's newspapers or what, but Flames executive have an immunity from criticism that no other executive outside Edmonton shares. Or maybe it's just an Alberta thing - we don't criticize our own.

I wouldn't say that.

Francis has definitely talked about a need for a rebuild and I have seen articles in the Herald from their guys as well. Walker and Boomer have been very critical of the team on the radio as well.

The local media wasn't any slower in criticizing Sutter than the national guys were in large part because he didn't need much criticizing until the end.

The Calgary media is nowhere close to the Edmonton media in terms of sheltering the team and blowing smoke. At worst they can be seen as not being critical enough while the Edmonton media is outright cheerleaders and PR staff.

I think for the most part the less critical nature of the local media has come from that being what the majority of Flames fans/audience wanted to hear. Hard to get by writing scathing articles of the direction of the team if the people you are trying to sell to don't want to buy it.

[moon]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Why wouldn't you? Guy is a proven winner everywhere he has coached. What the hell has Ruff ever won? Nothing.

He wasn't a proven winner in Atlanta, won with a stacked team in Colorado and then sucked when it wasn't full of HOFer's. I guess he may have been successful in the Swiss League so good for him but he hasn't really done much in his time in the NHL to show he is anything other than a mediocre coach.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by moon

He wasn't a proven winner in Atlanta, won with a stacked team in Colorado and then sucked when it wasn't full of HOFer's. I guess he may have been successful in the Swiss League so good for him but he hasn't really done much in his time in the NHL to show he is anything other than a mediocre coach.

Again, tell me how Ruff has accomplished more? Oh, you mean that crap Thrashers team he got in the playoffs?

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

You mean the same Brian Burke that traded what amounted to Tyler Seguin and Dougie Hamilton for Phil Kessel? Ya, pure brilliance. People complain on here about Feaster talking too much and fans want to bring in Tubby McBlowhard? Jesus, even the fan base is becoming a gong show.

While it's fair to criticize that deal, you're completely ignoring his other deals. Every GM has made his share of duds, and even those people criticize Burke for this trade, it really wasn't a robbery. Look at the guys other deals and tell me how many GM's could asset manage like he did with the Leafs - especially with some of the harshest media scrutiny at every possible move whether he did it or not.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by fleury

While it's fair to criticize that deal, you're completely ignoring his other deals. Every GM has made his share of duds, and even those people criticize Burke for this trade, it really wasn't a robbery. Look at the guys other deals and tell me how many GM's could asset manage like he did with the Leafs - especially with some of the harshest media scrutiny at every possible move whether he did it or not.

regardless, him and Edwards would kill eachother with their personality traits. As for Burke he had plenty of time to do something with Toronto and they did nothing. Burke is not the answer.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Joborule

Why? I don't know too much about him, but the fact he stuck with one team for so long speaks volume.

Ruff is completely overrated.

Plus, everyone on this forum seems to hate it when coaches and management runs their mouth. Have you guys ever seen Lindy? Nobody is more annoying, nobody complains more, nobody opens their mouth more than Lindy Ruff.

I don't want a coach like Ruff, who has constantly underachieved, representing my favorite team.

[moon]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Again, tell me how Ruff has accomplished more? Oh, you mean that crap Thrashers team he got in the playoffs?

The ONE year they made the play-offs by the skin of their teeth thanks to playing in the pathetic SE division and got whipped in the play-offs was not a crap team.

I am not calling for Ruff but he has often got a less talented team to play well and have success. The numerous play-off appearances and runs he had with the Sabres are more impressive than Hartleys seasons.

[Enoch Root]

I think KK has done an excellent job in the business of the Calgary Flames. And if it were up to me, I would keep him in the organization, running the business.

However, at the same time, the Flames desperately need a hockey guy to run and guide hockey operations (something I don't think KK has done well).

My preference was JD but that ship has sailed. Burke is not my first choice, however, I am a lot more interested in Burke as a Pres of HO than I would be as a GM. I think Burke could really instill a solid organizational vision. And he would bring in so many strong individuals to build his team.

I also think Burke is excellent at getting value for his players in trades - very tough negotiator. If the Flames are going to start selling, I would be very excited to have Burke around for that (even if he weren't the GM, his presence wuld make a difference). I do not have much faith in Feaster in that regard.

Would love to see a President of Hockey Ops brought in. If it is Burke, I am fine with that. I could see him come in as President and interim GM and then bring in a full time GM in the summer.

And Burke would not be afraid to make the tough decisions that await this franchise.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by moon

The ONE year they made the play-offs by the skin of their teeth thanks to playing in the pathetic SE division and got whipped in the play-offs was not a crap team.

I am not calling for Ruff but he has often got a less talented team to play well and have success. The numerous play-off appearances and runs he had with the Sabres are more impressive than Hartleys seasons.

No they are not. Ruff had some very good teams as well but fell short. Hartley won a Cup and you are saying Ruff being in Buffalo forever with quite a few underachieving seasons is more impressive? Laughable!

[Enoch Root]

Just say no to Ruff.

I respect what he has done as a coach, but his best days are behind him and I would find it hard to imagine that he could muster the passion necessary to start up with a new team - especially a team that may be rebuilding.

[Poe969]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Why wouldn't you? Guy is a proven winner everywhere he has coached. What the hell has Ruff ever won? Nothing.

I don't want Ruff either and I never said that. And when you say "Guy is a proven winner" are you suggesting Guy Charbaneau????? Why would you suggest that, he hasn't done anything worth while as a coach and doesn't deserve the job. Are you now just throwing names out for the sake of throwing names out? I thoughg you want Hartley, now you want Charbaneau???? Make up your mind!

I know you didn't really suggest Charbaneau, I only said that because since you assumed I suggested Ruff, I had to assume you suggested Charbaneau because you said Guy...

Hartley won while coaching the Avs with an all-star team. I could have done the same. He didn't do anything worth while with the Thrashers and more importantly he hasn't done anything good for the Flames. And when I say he hasn't done anything good, it's an understatement. He has really only done bad as a coach in Calgary. Comeau on the first line? Sitting Sven instead of just sending him down? The D combos? His treatment of Cervenka? Splitting up lines that start to play well? There are waaaaaay more examples of him being a bad coach then there are of him being a good coach for the Flames because when it all boils down to it, who cares what he's done anywhere else. I'm a Fan of the Calgary Flames, not any other team he's coached.

[oldschoolcalgary]

People roasted Sutter for his drafting tho... So Feaster's poor record in TB should fall under the same scrutiny.

Hell, Brent never laced up the skates, but he got all the blame for the teams poor play.

The buck stops at the top. Fairly or not, and people can't just cherry pick when they choose to apply that rule

[dissentowner]

I wonder when we are going to stop blaming the coach. How many more do we have to go through?

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

regardless, him and Edwards would kill eachother with their personality traits. As for Burke he had plenty of time to do something with Toronto and they did nothing. Burke is not the answer.

He would have even less to work with in Calgary then he had in Toronto. No, the Flames need a patient GM who can rebuild the team through the draft, not an impatient blowhard. And trades matter far less in the NHL today than drafting and development. That's why watching Davidson go to Columbus was so disheartening.

[Poe969]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Again, tell me how Ruff has accomplished more? Oh, you mean that crap Thrashers team he got in the playoffs?

I would take their roster over ours right now 100% of the time. That "crap" Thrasers team had Hossa, Kovalchuck, Coburn, and a few others that were pretty good on the team.

[moon]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I wonder when we are going to stop blaming the coach. How many more do we have to go through?

I blame players as well.

It is possible that both the coach and players are at fault.

[browna]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Yes, but there have to be not fewer than 30 other executives in this city who could do what KK does without interfering in hockey ops.

I'm not saying his time here has been a waste, but like everything, it may be time to move on, and he is a very replaceable piece.

Severely underestimating King's abilities and skills. Most CEO's and executives in the city know how to run a business and make money in their field. King has basically to oversee things progressing on the ice, something he had no inside knowledge of, deal with an organization in shambles from top to bottom, and bring it back to respectibility in all areas...in the offices, on the ice, and in the community. Those take a lot of different skill sets, but he's done all that, and the Flames are successful, and are intertwined with the community, setup community partnerships, all for the good of the City.

With the Flames Foundation, and all the charitable initiatives, let alone a strong corporate following, that wasn't always there. Save our Flames spawned the Flames Ambassadors were setup in the late 90's as a last resort to get corporate Calgary recruited in the sale drive, and it was still a losing battle. But, he helped things stay positive, and waited for the person to turn around the team on the ice.

He's the go between for the owners and the GM's, day to day around the team, to give the high level details to a very interested ownership group who can't keep up with the day to day or week to week goings on...he's the guy, always has been.

Having that role and around the team day to day that daily pulse on the team, possibly the only one still around since he was hired in 2001, its hard not to be involved.

He's been in hockey operations, like it or not, intentional or not, since the beginning...first incident that I recall is Gilbert getting upset after a game at Vernon, and sending Vernon down to the minors while on an eastern swing. There were a couple of highly prominent members of the Flames organization ready to quit over that. King flew from Calgary to go out and mediate. So in addition to all the marketing and trying to fill seats with corporate and casual fans, build the TV side of things, new media side of things, etc, in a new job, he has to get involved in things.

Sutter was the hire that got him over the top...but, he also let Sutter do what he needed to do on the ice, and in the GM chair.

Also, I think as soon as Sutter, who he was close with, became a rookie GM, the two worked together pretty closely.

Darryl needing some of the help to navigate the business side mixing with a cap, and being a "have" team all of a sudden...and in that relationship, King likely was even more exposed to the day to day operations that Sutter was dealing with, working hand in hand with Darryl and learned a lot from him about hockey players and the dynamics of a hockey club day to day.

When Darryl was let go, I am sure King kept some of theat knowledge he acquired. I am sure the owners and maybe even Feaster, appreciated that experience. Feaster may also known that King, being around the club as long as he has, is a valuable person to have to bounce ideas off. Are bouncing ideas off the guy "meddling" in hockey operations? Don't know.

After all that, and even with experience he may have gleaned off of working with Darryl and being as close to the hockey operations for a half decade, should he be making decisions at a detailed level? Probably not. But he's also been given the trust of the Flames owners for almost 12 years, who are as passionate about hockey as most here, and have millions of dollars invested.

If they thought he was a hindrance or overstepping his bounds, that would be an issue brought up and addressed.

I'm not doubting that he's got opinions in hockey operations, but I'd like to know the form and depth that he's involved....certainly before he gets thrown out under the bus as the blame gets shifted around as the Flames start to fail.

Anyways, its easy to start pointing fingers, and maybe or maybe not he has worn out his welcome in that role, if for optics if nothing else. Being part of the sports conglomerate he's help build in this city with the Stamps, Roughnecks and Hitmen, and be the lead point for the next thing the Flames organization will provide the city, that being a new arena, is not a bad idea.

But, I would be quite surprised if he's overstepped the bounds of decision making that the owner, or Sutter or Feaster, have allowed him to have, in making any sort of critical hockey operations, including those that have lead to the situation the Flames are in right now. There are a lot of fingers to point probably, and singling one out as him is unfair and shortsighted without any of us knowing that dynamic within the Flames organization.

IMO.

[Enoch Root]

good points browna.

What I am saying is that KK's job has gotten too big and complicated. Time to split it into two. Let him run the rest of the business and bring in a hockey ops guy.

win/win