The NBA . . . . . gone and forgotten

[moon]

Originally Posted by valo403

What do you think a good shooting percentage is for a guard? His numbers put him among the best in the league in that category.

That's awesome that his numbers put him among the best in the league in the games I have seen him play he was chucking it up and hoping the shots fell.

I have not seen all his games so perhaps in the earlier games he took better shots but based on what I saw I would much rather watch Lebron dunk than this kid.

Btw, what highlight show do you watch that shows every single shot a player takes?

Not sure what you are getting at here.

[secol]

Originally Posted by fleury

I didn't watch much of the game today and only caught the end. I like the story the guy has brought to the Knicks, but am completely skeptical of the guys' ability. Undoubtedly he's a very smart guy (his degree speaks for itself), but his playing ability is lacking in quite a few areas. Now it's possible because of his background he was overlooked by many, but lets not forget he's had his chances with 10 day contracts with NO (IIRC), and guys like him rarely consistently put up great numbers. What he's done so far is pretty remarkable, but count me among the guys who aren't buying his starting ability (yet).

i actually agree with you a bit...his main achilles heel is turnovers. not sure where valo got his stats from (i think he used season average), but Lin averaged 6 TO's per game in his starts. that is incredibly inefficent. to put it into perspective the league leader in TO's per game is westbrook and he averages just over 4 per game

also you can't say that the system isn't perfect for Lin right now. so it doesn't matter if it's Chandler and three other guys. one of those "other guys" is Novak who is an incredible shooter (heard he averaged 50% from 3PT for the past few games at a high volume). Chandler who is an amazing pick and roll guy. Walker who can hit the three.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by moon

That's awesome that his numbers put him among the best in the league in the games I have seen him play he was chucking it up and hoping the shots fell.

I have not seen all his games so perhaps in the earlier games he took better shots but based on what I saw I would much rather watch Lebron dunk than this kid.



Not sure what you are getting at here.

So you watched a game where he went 9-20, which is a stat line that would put him near the top for NBA guards, and that counts as chucking it up and hoping. Okay.

You responded to a post about watching NBA highlights, since when does a highlight show run through every shot a player takes? Hell, ESPN is going crazy about Lin and only showed maybe 4 of his shots from last night.

[moon]

Originally Posted by valo403

So you watched a game where he went 9-20, which is a stat line that would put him near the top for NBA guards, and that counts as chucking it up and hoping. Okay.

He can make bad shots doesn't mean that I think that it was smart for him to take it or exciting to watch it.

You responded to a post about watching NBA highlights, since when does a highlight show run through every shot a player takes? Hell, ESPN is going crazy about Lin and only showed maybe 4 of his shots from last night.

Didn't realize it was just talking about highlights thought it was watching each guy overall.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by secol

i actually agree with you a bit...his main achilles heel is turnovers. not sure where valo got his stats from (i think he used season average), but Lin averaged 6 TO's per game in his starts. that is incredibly inefficent. to put it into perspective the league leader in TO's per game is westbrook and he averages just over 4 per game

also you can't say that the system isn't perfect for Lin right now. so it doesn't matter if it's Chandler and three other guys. one of those "other guys" is Novak who is an incredible shooter (heard he averaged 50% from 3PT for the past few games at a high volume). Chandler who is an amazing pick and roll guy. Walker who can hit the three.

You're right, I had the season number there. But, if you're going to break down Lin to a smaller sample size you have to do the same for everyone else, which puts him only 0.2 ahead of Westbrook over the last 5 games.

Where did I say the system isn't perfect for Lin? It's actually pretty good, but he's still doing it without 2 elite players (I'd argue he's much better off without Carmelo) at the end of the day. The fact is this team was heading down the drain before he came on the scene.

[The Big Chill]

Originally Posted by moon

I would rather see that than Lin chucking up 20 shots and hoping that may 6 or 7 of them go in.

I think he is fun to watch because of his all-out aggressiveness. I highly doubt he can keep putting up these huge numbers, but for now I find it much more enjoyable then watching LeBron showboat.

[secol]

Originally Posted by valo403

You're right, I had the season number there. But, if you're going to break down Lin to a smaller sample size you have to do the same for everyone else, which puts him only 0.2 ahead of Westbrook over the last 5 games.

Where did I say the system isn't perfect for Lin? It's actually pretty good, but he's still doing it without 2 elite players (I'd argue he's much better off without Carmelo) at the end of the day. The fact is this team was heading down the drain before he came on the scene.

well the thing with Lin is that you can only use a small sample size since he only has 5 starts?

i wasn't saying that you said the system wasn't perfect for Lin, but was more referencing to your comment about Chandler and 3 other guys. those other guys complement his game really well and i agree that melo will definitely have a negative impact on his production, thought hey might be able to figure it out but i doubt it

[valo403]

Originally Posted by secol

well the thing with Lin is that you can only use a small sample size since he only has 5 starts?

i wasn't saying that you said the system wasn't perfect for Lin, but was more referencing to your comment about Chandler and 3 other guys. those other guys complement his game really well and i agree that melo will definitely have a negative impact on his production, thought hey might be able to figure it out but i doubt it

Obviously I agree that Lin only has a small sample size, but numbers are going to skew when the size is that small, which is why I think his scoring average will come down over time (due in no small part to exhaustion).

I think Melo has the ability to figure it out, but I highly doubt he has the desire to do so. As for the 3 other guys, let's face it, they aren't exactly world beaters. That line up on paper isn't scaring anyone, and really that lineup with Amare and Carmelo wasn't scaring anyone 2 weeks ago.

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by moon

He can make bad shots doesn't mean that I think that it was smart for him to take it or exciting to watch it.

You do know all the best scorers in the NBA do this right?

Kobe takes shots of ridiculous difficulty. Every 3 pointer that Lebron takes is one that he shouldn't. Durant and Nowitzki shoot over defenders on a nightly basis.

Also, 45% FG (and far higher TS% due to free throws) is a very standard stat line. Usually anything above 50% is considered efficient, and anything below 40% is in-efficient.

[The Big Chill]

Originally Posted by Regorium

You do know all the best scorers in the NBA do this right?

Kobe takes shots of ridiculous difficulty. Every 3 pointer that Lebron takes is one that he shouldn't. Durant and Nowitzki shoot over defenders on a nightly basis.

Also, 45% FG (and far higher TS% due to free throws) is a very standard stat line. Usually anything above 50% is considered efficient, and anything below 40% is in-efficient.

There is a difference between a bad shot and a difficult shot though. Throwing up a off-balance shot early in the shot clock when your rebounders haven't had a chance to get position is bad. Dirk shooting over a defender after a post-up at the elbow is a good quality shot despite having a hand in his face while doing it.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Regorium

You do know all the best scorers in the NBA do this right?

Kobe takes shots of ridiculous difficulty. Every 3 pointer that Lebron takes is one that he shouldn't. Durant and Nowitzki shoot over defenders on a nightly basis.

Also, 45% FG (and far higher TS% due to free throws) is a very standard stat line. Usually anything above 50% is considered efficient, and anything below 40% is in-efficient.

I think there is a difference between taking bad shots and difficult shots.

But I do agree that Kobe is now taking more bad shots than he did earlier in his career.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by moon

I think there is a difference between taking bad shots and difficult shots.

But I do agree that Kobe is now taking more bad shots than he did earlier in his career.

Agreed, how you applied it to Lin is beyond me. He's not heaving up shots early in the possession or forcing shots when he has a better passing option.

[bluejays]

Valo, to answer the question posed to me, I'm just skeptical of a) his skill level (jump shooting, and dribbling - slightly, quickness), b) that he can keep it up. We haven't quite seen this type of jump in basketball, but generally you can't come in and tear it up without a single damn scout seeing this coming. He wasn't even drafted! He's certainly got a hot hand, but I want 10 more games like this before I even refer to him as a starter. I hope the best for him, because it is a great story.

[oldschoolcalgary]

i think people ought to be skeptical, mainly due to the lack of film on the kid. With top draft picks, you can see the body of work against top competition or in the NCAA tourney.

Lin? you really don't have much to project his future career.

That said, it is a great story, and the kid is lighting it up like no one in NBA history. That is damn impressive considering all the stars the NBA has had since the merger.

With respect to measurables, basketball IQ is the most important and can't be measured. A guy like Stockton or Nash is evidence that you don't have to be 6'5" with a 42" vertical to be a star.

the thing that is impressive, albeit with a small sample size, is Lin isn't afraid of the moment. No situation thus far is too big for him and that is huge and can't be underestimated.

[browna]

The NBA needs whatever it can to get some positive PR and get people talking about it.

No doubt this is a flash in the pan, but who cares? I have nothing invested in the NBA and certainly not the Knicks. However, I had no problem with the highlight packs foregoing the Leafs and Flames last night instead starting off with Lin-sanity, and couldn't believe after all the hype he hits the tying and game winning shot.

Also a packed ACC for the first time in a while, goes to show that sometimes the feel good story/circus sideshow should just be enjoyed for what it is, not over-analyzed. Plus it brings out all the "players out of nowhere" lists on the sports shows like John Druce, Chris Kontos, and guys like Fernando Valenzuela, Buster Douglas and John Daly.

[Montana Moe]

Ed Weiland, FedEx driver from Oregon, predicted Lin's success two years ago:

Hoopsanalyst.com

The best candidate to pull off such a surprise might be Harvard’s Jeremy Lin. The reason is two numbers Lin posted, 2-point FG pct and RSB40 (Rebounds/Steals/Blocks per 40 minutes). Lin was at .598 and 9.7. This is impressive on both counts. These numbers show NBA athleticism better than any other, because a high score in both shows dominance at the college level on both ends of the court. Here is a list of recent college PGs who topped .540 and 9.0:

NYT Article on Weiland

[valo403]

Originally Posted by fleury

Valo, to answer the question posed to me, I'm just skeptical of a) his skill level (jump shooting, and dribbling - slightly, quickness), b) that he can keep it up. We haven't quite seen this type of jump in basketball, but generally you can't come in and tear it up without a single damn scout seeing this coming. He wasn't even drafted! He's certainly got a hot hand, but I want 10 more games like this before I even refer to him as a starter. I hope the best for him, because it is a great story.

I hear you, I just think you're rating his skill level based on the player he was 2 years ago, not the player he is now. He's obviously worked on his weaknesses to the point that they aren't flaws in his game anymore.

I'd expect tonights numbers to become the norm, 10-12 points and 10-12 assists. If that happens and Melo is getting his looks this team is very dangerous. He's the only real facilitator the Knicks have had under Dantoni, and he's showing what a guy with his skill set can do in that system.

Btw, there's no way he isn't a starter on this Knicks team even if he does drop off, the options are non-existant unless Davis gets healthy and shows mid season form, which seems unlikely.

I think my situation sums up his impact on basketball viewing pretty well around here. I went from a guy who never watched the NBA (prefer NCAA) to someone who bolted from the gym after my game tonight to get to a bar to catch the second half (the Time Warner-MSG spat means I don't get games at home) of a game that was pretty much in the bag at that point. The only downside is I was planning to hit a couple games this year but ticket prices on stubhub have gone through the roof in the last week.

[sergei_makarov]

The great thing about this story and this kid is how humble he is and has managed to stay. I too am skeptical about how long he'll last, but it's completely refreshing considering the high number of typical, spoiled, clueless attitudes that seem to dominate the NBA.

[killer_carlson]

I think it will last for a while, but the dominance will change as more film gets put out on him. He has the right coach for him though, so that is why it will continue.

Plus I think Lin, being a harvard guy, is probably smart enough to figure out that he has to find a way to make Carmello more important so Carmello doesn't start sulking.

[GirlySports]

/facepalm