Humorous quote from Republican congressman Peter King in regards to the Occupy movement:
“We have to be careful not to allow this to get any legitimacy,” he said, adding “I’m taking this seriously in that I’m old enough to remember what happened in the 1960s when the left-wing took to the streets and somehow the media glorified them and it ended up shaping policy. We can’t allow that to happen.”
Humorous quote from Republican congressman Peter King in regards to the Occupy movement:
“We have to be careful not to allow this to get any legitimacy,” he said, adding “I’m taking this seriously in that I’m old enough to remember what happened in the 1960s when the left-wing took to the streets and somehow the media glorified them and it ended up shaping policy. We can’t allow that to happen.”
Yeah, i'm not a fan of this "movement" but that quote is ridiculous and plays right into the hands of those who believe they aren't having their voices heard.
Yeah, i'm not a fan of this "movement" but that quote is ridiculous and plays right into the hands of those who believe they aren't having their voices heard.
Not to mention they are fine with the other movement, in fact endorsed it with 'call to arms' rhetoric.
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Humorous quote from Republican congressman Peter King in regards to the Occupy movement:
“We have to be careful not to allow this to get any legitimacy,” he said, adding “I’m taking this seriously in that I’m old enough to remember what happened in the 1960s when the left-wing took to the streets and somehow the media glorified them and it ended up shaping policy. We can’t allow that to happen.”
Smarter people, including Vikram Pandit, CEO of Citigroup and Mark Carney of the Bank of Canada, are publicly supportive of the group . . . . . because its quite plain, in PR speak, that giving Occupy Wall St the podium, as you saw in the Licia Corbella column in the Herald, will be ample enough rope for them to hang themselves so they eventually fade to irrelevance.
Pete King of the Republican Party is simply helping their cause with a comment like that.
Here's what Vikram Pandit, CEO of Citigroup said about "Occupy Wall St." six days ago:
"Their sentiments are completely understandable. The economic recovery is not what we all want it to be, there are a number of people in our country who cant achieve what they are capable of achieving and that's not a good place to be."
"I would also corroborate that trust has been broken between financial institutions and the citizens of the U.S. and that it's Wall Street's job to reach out to Main Street and rebuild that trust. I'd talk about the fact that they should hold Citi and the financial institutions accountable for practicing responsible finance."
Pandit added that he'd "be happy to talk to them anytime."
Now THAT is what any PR rep would be advising any of the corporate elite to be saying publicly, even if they might not believe it internally. That's just smart PR.
Pete King needs to learn that lesson.
Be nice. Let them kill themselves. As they are repeatedly doing in most cities.
Cowperson
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because its quite plain, in PR speak, that giving Occupy Wall St the podium, as you saw in the Licia Corbella column in the Herald, will be ample enough rope for them to hang themselves so they eventually fade to irrelevance.
Cow, one small group of nutbars from one article from one city does not equal the entire Occupy Wall St. movement. Believing that to be true, that Licia's article portrays only what the movement represents and who it's population consists of, is short sighted, ridiculous, and uninformed.
Not to mention they are fine with the other movement, in fact endorsed it with 'call to arms' rhetoric.
If you are talking about the Tea party movement there is some significant differences. The Tea party's ralleys were well organized and they did have permits and kept the peace. There was not one arrest associated with the Tea party and they cleaned up after themselves. The Tea party used the ralleys to get their message out and then used their foot army to promote candidates who they helped get elected.
Political activism is great! It shows you care for your country. Civil disobedience is another thing. It should only be used when the legal avenues for change have been blocked or at the very least exhausted.
You might oppose the Tea party's ideology but, you should acknowledge that they were effective in their reach and by being smart politically proved a lot of their detractors wrong. Can this 99% movement achieve the same? Maybe but, they seem to be starting out on the wrong foot.
If you are talking about the Tea party movement there is some significant differences. The Tea party's ralleys were well organized and they did have permits and kept the peace. There was not one arrest associated with the Tea party and they cleaned up after themselves. The Tea party used the ralleys to get their message out and then used their foot army to promote candidates who they helped get elected.
Political activism is great! It shows you care for your country. Civil disobedience is another thing. It should only be used when the legal avenues for change have been blocked or at the very least exhausted.
You might oppose the Tea party's ideology but, you should acknowledge that they were effective in their reach and by being smart politically proved a lot of their detractors wrong. Can this 99% movement achieve the same? Maybe but, they seem to be starting out on the wrong foot.
They (TTPM) haven't been effective in their reach at all, they've only got their own base going, and the most radical of those at that. They were the ones who already felt that way anyway.
The Occupy movement has hit something like 60 cities worldwide! The Tea Party movement only has supporters in the States, and only ever will.
We can argue which is the better (or more legal/moral) way to do it and yeah, there are differences with the movements there. I would argue many of the movements that have been important in history have had to exist outside the law to a certain extent. Whether it's in the Western world, or it's taking down a 3rd world dictator.
But I find the last part of your post humourous. The Tea Party movement isn't being accepted by anyone other than radical republicans. And it's not an issue anywhere else in the world. The Occupy movement is supported by people around the world, and even Time Magazine's latest issue has it billed as 'The Silent Majority' reporting that 57% percent of Americans sympathize with the protestors.
Cow, one small group of nutbars from one article from one city does not equal the entire Occupy Wall St. movement. Believing that to be true, that Licia's article portrays only what the movement represents and who it's population consists of, is short sighted, ridiculous, and uninformed.
Obviously not, but lets face it, those are exactly the types the media will run to given the chance. One of the drawbacks of attempting to be nominally leaderless is that there is no control over the message. Consequently (and ironically in this case) the vocal minority is capable of overshadowing the 'silent' majority.
Whatever message Occupy Calgary hoped to send, the public likely sees it only as hypocritical hippies arguing that Alberta should generate power via the tides and people desperately seeking condoms.
The media is a protest's greatest ally if used properly. If not, it can become its greatest enemy.
Obviously not, but lets face it, those are exactly the types the media will run to given the chance. One of the drawbacks of attempting to be nominally leaderless is that there is no control over the message. Consequently (and ironically in this case) the vocal minority is capable of overshadowing the 'silent' majority.
Fortunately with the numerous articles, radio reports, and TV reports that I have read, heard, and viewed, I'm not that concerned with a vocal minority overshadowing the OWS/Occupy majority at this point. But you do raise a good point that the movement will need to be aware of going forward.
They (TTPM) haven't been effective in their reach at all, they've only got their own base going, and the most radical of those at that. They were the ones who already felt that way anyway.
The Occupy movement has hit something like 60 cities worldwide! The Tea Party movement only has supporters in the States, and only ever will.
We can argue which is the better (or more legal/moral) way to do it and yeah, there are differences with the movements there. I would argue many of the movements that have been important in history have had to exist outside the law to a certain extent. Whether it's in the Western world, or it's taking down a 3rd world dictator.
But I find the last part of your post humourous. The Tea Party movement isn't being accepted by anyone other than radical republicans. And it's not an issue anywhere else in the world. The Occupy movement is supported by people around the world, and even Time Magazine's latest issue has it billed as 'The Silent Majority' reporting that 57% percent of Americans sympathize with the protestors.
The Tea party has effective control over the US House of Representatives. They are the reason Obama lost his check book and has quit governing and started campaigning with over a year left in his presidency. The MSM are both blaming them for the grid lock in Washington and saying that they are irrelevant today. Both positions can't be right!
What power does the 99% movement have? Where will they be once winter hits?
The Tea party has effective control over the US House of Representatives. They are the reason Obama lost his check book and has quit governing and started campaigning with over a year left in his presidency. The MSM are both blaming them for the grid lock in Washington and saying that they are irrelevant today. Both positions can't be right!
What power does the 99% movement have? Where will they be once winter hits?
Well I guess we'll see what happens to both sides, we're not going to figure this out in the next few days. There's a lot to write on both sides yet.
The Occupy movement is supported by people around the world, and even Time Magazine's latest issue has it billed as 'The Silent Majority' reporting that 57% percent of Americans sympathize with the protestors.
I'm not sure Time's results really supports Occupy Wall Street.
Even I support the idea of protesting for better regulatory controls of the financial sector . . . . . which is effectively, in a broad sense, myself supporting the Occupy Wall St. Movement. I've even encouraged you to get out and protest . . . . but have said you're arguing with the wrong people.
In The Hill newspaper in Washington, a more enlightening poll this week tells a different tale about the common man:
The movement appears to have struck a chord with progressive voters, but it does not seem to represent the feelings of the wider public.
The Hill poll found that only one in three likely voters blames Wall Street for the country’s financial troubles, whereas more than half — 56 percent — blame Washington.
Moreover, when it comes to the political consequences of the protest, voters tend to believe that there are more perils than positives for Obama and the Democrats.
A plurality believe that the Occupy Wall Street movement will hurt Democrats and Obama in the 2012 election. Even those whose sympathies lie on the left of center seem unsure about the likely political repercussions. Just half of all liberal likely voters — the group most likely to blame Wall Street for the recession — and fewer than half of all Democrats believe the protests will help their side next year.
The split on the question of apportioning blame for the nation’s economic travails corresponds closely with voters’ political ideologies: More than 7 in 10 conservatives blamed Washington for the recession, while more than 5 in 10 liberals blamed Wall Street.
But self-identified centrists, importantly, appear to be siding with the right on economic issues, with nearly half blaming Washington for the recession.
What you're seeing in a poll like that is a more pragmatic populace - the 99% - versus the extremists that tend to populate the Occupy Wall St. movement which right now looks like the 1%.
People are choked. They're cheesed at everyone within swinging distance. But some punching bags rank higher than others.
Good news though, in Missoula, they're setting up teepees and getting ready for winter.
Cow, one small group of nutbars from one article from one city does not equal the entire Occupy Wall St. movement. Believing that to be true, that Licia's article portrays only what the movement represents and who it's population consists of, is short sighted, ridiculous, and uninformed.
Glad you can agree they're nutbars.
And they're in every town. You're pretty myopic if you think different.
This also isn't the tough times of "The Grapes Of Wrath" or even the recessions of Ronald Reagan in the early 1980's, the images of which I remember well. I loved how the unemployed guy in Calgary whipped out his I-pod to show pictures of his work . . .
Also, in the news of the day, Citigroup ordered to pay $285 million in a civil fraud charges . . . . . and not their first conviction of late. Apparently they don't have Washington in their pocket.
Cowperson
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^^^ (Cowperson) Actually there have been many times I agreed with you that the bigger changes and regulations need to come from the government, so I'm not sure what you're saying. As you've said, and I've thanked, the banks can't police themselves.
Still, there are many examples of corporations that have acted irresponsibly, even illegally and have either gotten away from it, or gotten the tiniest of slaps on the wrist. People will be mad and they're going to direct it somewhere. When you said, you can't blame the lions if you opened the cage it is apt, and does have merit, but it's horribly oversimplifying the problem and the responsibilities of those involved.
Regardless, the movement is doing what movement is doing now, it can't really be changed. The end goal is still the same even if the message is muddled or people don't know where to directly point the finger. It shouldn't be the people in the streets coming up with the big solutions anyway, the people in power in both government and business have both better knowledge of the problem and how to go about regulating it or fixing it. The movement is just to show that the will of the people wants significant change. That they are aware of problems and will go to greater lengths if things aren't significantly changed. A protest is a way for people without power, to put pressure on people with power. Whether it's the hippies of the 60's or the civilians getting rid of a dictator. They aren't there to actually solve the problems. They do their part by showing up and showing displeasure.
In the time that this started, groups within the Occupy movement have gotten a lot more clear about their desires or demands. They've laid out ideas for change in how the government and the corporations and/or banks relate and work with each other. They've written about how the two entities have gotten too intertwined leading to irresponsibility at the best of circumstances, and planned manipulation in the worst. So they are listening to the populace who kept asking 'what is your message?' Unfortunately a lot of it gets lost among the fringe groups you always find at protests.
There was a great bit by John Oliver on the Daily Show yesterday about how a lot of the centerists don't like the protesters cause of the fringe weirdos, but support a lot of the central ideas and just wish some normal people would go out and seize the day. Join the protest and put out a more moderate cohesive message. And control those damn radicals! The funny thing is, normal centrists, don't go out and protest, they just sit on message boards and talk about better ways to do it without actually doing anything.
Lastly, I would hardly consider a Time poll scientific, I was just using the example to illustrate that the movement is resonating with people and has a lot more steam than some people think it has.
Last edited by Daradon; 10-19-2011 at 12:59 PM.
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^^^ (Cowperson) There was a great bit by John Oliver on the Daily Show yesterday about how a lot of the centerists don't like the protesters cause of the fringe weirdos, but support a lot of the central ideas and just wish some normal people would go out and seize the day. Join the protest and put out a more moderate cohesive message. And control those damn radicals! The funny thing is, normal centrists, don't go out and protest, they just sit on message boards and talk about better ways to do it without actually doing anything.
.
"The Silent Majority" . . . . first coined by Richard Nixon.
Nixon along with many others saw this group of Middle Americans as being overshadowed in the media by the more vocal minority.
You and Occupy Wall St., of course, are "the more vocal minority."
Everyone tries to claim The Silent Majority is on their side. You're nothing new in that regard.
In this case, the coming weeks will see the truth or fiction of that. As I said, its nice to spread to a bunch of different locations and get the local vocal minority out . . . . . but you'll need to inspire thousands and tens of thousands - in each of those locations - to visibly join you before it would look convincing.
Obama can read the Hill poll I posted above just as easily as anyone else - reflecting the views of The Silent Majority - and his team will also be watching the visible numbers.
Occupy Wall St really isn't that impressive . . . . . but it could be. I'm doubting the momentum though because the general public has already been exposed to the comments from the wingnut fringe, the veritable first impression. Its not a good one. It looks like its populated by the illiterate minority.
I will open a bag of popcorn and sit back and wait to see what happens. Just like everyone else. It will only take a few weeks to see which way the momentum is going.
Quote:
Lastly, I would hardly consider a Time poll scientific, I was just using the example to illustrate that the movement is resonating with people and has a lot more steam than some people think it has
Time is perfectly capable of doing a scientific poll. You used it for a context it probably wasn't meant for. I narrowed it down for you with The Hill poll.
Quote:
Still, there are many examples of corporations that have acted irresponsibly, even illegally and have either gotten away from it, or gotten the tiniest of slaps on the wrist. People will be mad and they're going to direct it somewhere. When you said, you can't blame the lions if you opened the cage it is apt, and does have merit, but it's horribly oversimplifying the problem and the responsibilities of those involved.
I noted above and elsewhere fines and penalties are being handed out left and right where wrong doing is found.
However, your group wants revenge on individuals. Perp walks have happened before on Wall St, including coming out of the bubbles bursting in 1987, 2000 and now 2008 so its not like it hasn't happend before. However, if you want more perp walks than normal in bubble-bursting environments, you have to talk to your politicians about changing laws . . . . . just like most Americans understand via The Hill polling.
Cowperson
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In this case, the coming weeks will see the truth or fiction of that. As I said, its nice to spread to a bunch of different locations and get the local vocal minority out . . . . . but you'll need to inspire thousands and tens of thousands - in each of those locations - to visibly join you before it would look convincing.
I don't disagree with you on this point, but if people have the chance to contribute to a cause without getting off their butts they'll do it. Online petitions, for example, are one of those very examples that can have a mass effect if necessary.
When you think about it, the number of subscribers on a Twitter feed, or the number of "Likes" on a Facebook page are (in some ways) a form of online petition. Corporations are susceptible to these. A "social media backlash" can drive corporate strategy, such as happened with the GAP, Nivea, BP, Kia Motors, even Bank of America's debit card fees drew significant ire. Many companies have had to reverse policies or change tactics due to online disapproval and protest.
For actual, physical protests, then yes - feet on the ground matter, and in large quantities. However, visibility in the sense I think you're using it isn't a pre-requisite to drive change. At least not in the Information Age.
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You and Occupy Wall St., of course, are "the more vocal minority."
Everyone tries to claim The Silent Majority is on their side. You're nothing new in that regard.
In this case, the coming weeks will see the truth or fiction of that. As I said, its nice to spread to a bunch of different locations and get the local vocal minority out . . . . . but you'll need to inspire thousands and tens of thousands - in each of those locations - to visibly join you before it would look convincing.
Obama can read the Hill poll I posted above just as easily as anyone else - reflecting the views of The Silent Majority - and his team will also be watching the visible numbers.
Occupy Wall St really isn't that impressive . . . . . but it could be. I'm doubting the momentum though because the general public has already been exposed to the comments from the wingnut fringe, the veritable first impression. Its not a good one. It looks like its populated by the illiterate minority.
I will open a bag of popcorn and sit back and wait to see what happens. Just like everyone else. It will only take a few weeks to see which way the momentum is going.
Time is perfectly capable of doing a scientific poll. You used it for a context it probably wasn't meant for. I narrowed it down for you with The Hill poll.
I noted above and elsewhere fines and penalties are being handed out left and right where wrong doing is found.
However, your group wants revenge on individuals. Perp walks have happened before on Wall St, including coming out of the bubbles bursting in 1987, 2000 and now 2008 so its not like it hasn't happend before. However, if you want more perp walks than normal in bubble-bursting environments, you have to talk to your politicians about changing laws . . . . . just like most Americans understand via The Hill polling.
Cowperson
Sigh, first of all I never called it that, the Time article did. It was right on the front page. So I'm not sure how I could have misused it or the poll. I just always thought of Time as more of a middle of the road political/issues/entertainment magazine, not with the credibility of say The Economist, so I was willing to be open to possibilities of a type of sensationalism if so called out on it.
Secondly I'm fully aware that isn't the first time that phrase has been used, no need to be patronizing. I'm also fully aware that pretty much every group believes themselves to be in that group. I don't know why you think your educating me on that or talking to me like I'm some 16 year who is mad at their parents. This isn't my first rodeo, I've been around the block, and I'm obviously much older than you think I am, yadda yadda yadda.
Third, a few of the other points you made here I have also made. One the radicals could be harming the movement, and two we will see a lot more of the story in the coming weeks. I said the first to you just previous, and the second in a response to Calgaryborn when I said the story hasn't been written yet and there will be a lot to see unfold (or whether or not it does unfold in comparison to TTPM)
Lastly, I'm not looking for revenge on anyone, and I'm not sure the centralized message or desires are either. I think this is another one of the radical movements of the party creating noise over the rest. And I don't know how you get rid of those people. They exist in every movement. Are they creating more harm than good, or is their presence creating a means to an end? I dunno, we will see.
And they're in every town. You're pretty myopic if you think different.
This also isn't the tough times of "The Grapes Of Wrath" or even the recessions of Ronald Reagan in the early 1980's, the images of which I remember well. I loved how the unemployed guy in Calgary whipped out his I-pod to show pictures of his work . . .
Cowperson
Sweet, we're both calling each other shortsighted
Nope, I don't think differently. Just like I don't think those nutbars represent the movement in it's entirety, no matter the location.
Oh, and I'll be sure to notify all protesters that they're not allowed to protest if they own electronic devices of any sort. You definitely can't protest for change when you buy products from corporations you're upset with!
I will open a bag of popcorn and sit back and wait to see what happens. Just like everyone else. It will only take a few weeks to see which way the momentum is going.
I recommend a bag of cheesy dill popcorn from Kernels. That sh*t is delicious!
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