Official World Cup 2014 Qualifying Thread (Blame It On RIO)

[Stay Golden]

Originally Posted by cSpooge

Looks like JDG hasn't changed his mind.


http://youtu.be/H-5RqPNjAtU

what a creep. Take that Canada shirt off that he was probably compted by the national program. If any player even thinks of playing for another country and they were born and raised in Canada.
They should not even consider themselves to be Canadian at all. Thats about the most unpatriotic thing an athlete can do is play for another country just because they have better shot at making the world cup tournament.
Honestly it is a disgrace.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

what a creep. Take that Canada shirt off that he was probably compted by the national program. If any player even thinks of playing for another country and they were born and raised in Canada.
They should not even consider themselves to be Canadian at all. Thats about the most unpatriotic thing an athlete can do is play for another country just because they have better shot at making the world cup tournament.
Honestly it is a disgrace.

That seems overly harsh.

Although it doesn't fit with a guy like JDG I can see why a guy like Hargreaves would prefer to play for England considering the schedule that Club soccer has and the much easier schedule that a guy would have playing for a Euro team like England would have for the player. Add to that the improvement in development then if you have the chance to start for a power European team makes sense.

For a guy like JDG who likely never plays a real role in a legit tournament for Holland it doesn't make much sense.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by moon

That seems overly harsh.

Although it doesn't fit with a guy like JDG I can see why a guy like Hargreaves would prefer to play for England considering the schedule that Club soccer has and the much easier schedule that a guy would have playing for a Euro team like England would have for the player. Add to that the improvement in development then if you have the chance to start for a power European team makes sense.

For a guy like JDG who likely never plays a real role in a legit tournament for Holland it doesn't make much sense.

Yep, Hargreaves pretty much used his play for England to get himself a massive deal with Man United. As nice as it would have been to see him play for Canada he quite clearly made the right decision.

[Addick]

Originally Posted by moon

Add to that the improvement in development then if you have the chance to start for a power European team makes sense.

I'd also add politics, some times you simply cannot support a group of individuals and/or may want to make a stand.

[GirlySports]

And the travel. I know this will piss off us Westerners but in the past playing games all over the country and deciding in the last minute and being totally unorganized made Canada less attractive to play for.

Nobody wants to play in Europe and then have to fly all the way to f-ing Edmonton on a Monday/Tuesday, play a Friday or Saturday home game, then fly to Central America for a Wednesday road game then fly back to Europe for a Saturday league game. That's just too much.

I really like that Canada has a base in Toronto and play at BMO. A direct flight from any major city in Europe to Toronto is easy enough. If they qualify for the hex I would hope that all 5 home games are at BMO. The players need a stadium they're comfortble in and the fans would make it a fortress.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by valo403

Yep, Hargreaves pretty much used his play for England to get himself a massive deal with Man United. As nice as it would have been to see him play for Canada he quite clearly made the right decision.

I believe he was cut from Canadian national level teams something like three times. We had many chances to get that guy into the program.

[Locke]

I dont get JDG's motivation. Why is it that he wants so badly to play for a team that he will almost never make?

Hes 24, highly unlikely to make the Netherlands full national team, especially not with the attacking MF that Holland has available.

[troutman]

CONCACAF refs are incompetent. Maybe FIFA should send real refs.

[Matty81]

I don't think there is a clear black and white ever when it comes to declaring for a national side, but there are clearly two camps of people, one group who see the national team as a means to furthering your personal interests and another who feel like you play in service of and for the honor of your country.

You could definitely accuse the latter of being somewhat naive, but I still proudly belong to that group and have a healthy dislike for the Owen Hargreaves of the world and celebrate guys like Ryan Giggs. Respect their right to make their own call, and also recognize that most guys make it when they are still in their teens and early twenties, when I personally was not making the most informed decisions in my life.

Logistically you can refuse any call up you want - so if you are concerned about travel, cherry pick your spots, or don't even play at all rather than just picking a convenient team. But yeah lots of things working against us right now, travel and results wise.

Having even two or three of Begovic, Hoilett, De Guzman, Bunbury, Lensky or Hargreaves on the qualifying roster sure would be nice.

[mac_82]

I don't really see Hargreaves and de Guzman as comparables. Hagreaves parents were from England/Wales, so he at least had a legit reason for playing for England and had a choice of the 3. JDG's parents are from Jamaica and the Philippines. So he had the choice of those 2 plus Canada. But then went another step further, applied for Dutch citizenship, renounced his Canadian, then tried to get his brother to backdoor his way back on the team, then come out against it in the media.

At the end of the day, if he really wants to play in the World Cup, he has a better shot on the Canadian team and trying to help them qualify, then holding out hope he will some how slide into the Dutch midfield.

[Matty81]

Originally Posted by mac_82

I don't really see Hargreaves and de Guzman as comparables. Hagreaves parents were from England/Wales, so he at least had a legit reason for playing for England and had a choice of the 3. JDG's parents are from Jamaica and the Philippines. So he had the choice of those 2 plus Canada. But then went another step further, applied for Dutch citizenship, renounced his Canadian, then tried to get his brother to backdoor his way back on the team, then come out against it in the media.

At the end of the day, if he really wants to play in the World Cup, he has a better shot on the Canadian team and trying to help them qualify, then holding out hope he will some how slide into the Dutch midfield.

Hargreaves is the only player in the history of the English national team to play for them who had never even lived in England... respect his right to choose whatever team he wanted but he was even more of an opportunist than Jono. I think Owen was actually even in a couple Wales youth squads before he switched again to England when they came calling. He was clearly just about choosing the best team to play in. Nothing illegal about it, but I personally am not a fan.

At least JDG lived in the Netherlands and actually had some personal connection to the country, not just stories from his dad about how awesome it was. JDG is an idiot for the way he's handled it more than anything.

[GirlySports]

screw them all!

I like the team the way it is right now

[Matty81]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

screw them all!

I like the team the way it is right now

I think it's definitely the only way to be as a fan of the national team.... moving forward with the players who are proud to represent Canada.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Matty81

Hargreaves is the only player in the history of the English national team to play for them who had never even lived in England... respect his right to choose whatever team he wanted but he was even more of an opportunist than Jono. I think Owen was actually even in a couple Wales youth squads before he switched again to England when they came calling. He was clearly just about choosing the best team to play in. Nothing illegal about it, but I personally am not a fan.

At least JDG lived in the Netherlands and actually had some personal connection to the country, not just stories from his dad about how awesome it was. JDG is an idiot for the way he's handled it more than anything.

But at least there is some sense in what Hargreaves did.

Playing for England and having the opportunity to play in WC and Euro's while having a much easier travel schedule and not having to leave his club team or be unavailable for games makes a lot more sense than denouncing Canada for the chance of not playing for Holland ever.

At least Hargreaves left Canada to play for a team, JDG left Canada for nothing.

[Matty81]

Originally Posted by moon

But at least there is some sense in what Hargreaves did.

Playing for England and having the opportunity to play in WC and Euro's while having a much easier travel schedule and not having to leave his club team or be unavailable for games makes a lot more sense than denouncing Canada for the chance of not playing for Holland ever.

At least Hargreaves left Canada to play for a team, JDG left Canada for nothing.

Ya I totally understand Hargreaves' rationale and would never argue that he made the best career decision.

I think the JDG situation is just about ego. A couple years ago I was in the Netherlands with my girlfriend (now wife) who is dutch and even amongst his biggest backers back then (Feyenoord fans) at the apex of his career the perception was that he was a legend in his own mind relative to what he had accomplished, even though he was a good solid player in the eredivisie.

[カナダ人です]

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

I believe he was cut from Canadian national level teams something like three times. We had many chances to get that guy into the program.

Actually, this is sorta a myth, which has been exaggerated over the years. I believe the truth was that Hargreaves got cut from a U17 team once. Not that it matters.

The fact that he represented England without ever having lived there in his life (I assume he had at least set foot there) is a disgrace. He was/is not English. He is Canadian.

Opportunism is destroying the international game.
/rant


Regarding Canada's draw with Honduras, well, a little disappointing actually, considering they easily played well enough to win! Oh well, 4 points from the first 2 games is still a decent position to be in. A win against Panama at home on September 7th would be amazing

[Bill Bumface]

I hate hate hate hate that we have to wait until September now. I'm not a patient person and I love watching these games. I only hope that the broadcast from Cuba will be rock bottom and there is nowhere to go but up for the other away matches.

[mac_82]

From a TSN article on TFC today...

Julian de Guzman says he still hopes younger brother Jonathan will commit internationally to Canada. Jonathan has said he wants to represent the Netherlands, where he has played club soccer. "I still have hopes that he will be a part of the Canadian national team. He's yet to put on a Dutch jersey," said Julian. "I haven't given up hope for him to finally join us."

[sevenarms]

Originally Posted by moon

But at least there is some sense in what Hargreaves did.

Playing for England and having the opportunity to play in WC and Euro's while having a much easier travel schedule and not having to leave his club team or be unavailable for games makes a lot more sense than denouncing Canada for the chance of not playing for Holland ever.

At least Hargreaves left Canada to play for a team, JDG left Canada for nothing.

I compare it to playing hockey for Canada or for England. If you're able to play for either why would you chose playing hockey for England?

[d_phaneuf]

Who does he expect to take over for?

Robben/Sneijder/Van der Vaart/Afellay are all in their 20's, none of them will be retired before 2014 and JDG will never be better than them

They have young guys coming through like Strootman, Luuk de jong, Siem de jong etc.