8.9 Magnitude quake hits offshore Japan

[freedogger]

double post...

[mikey_the_redneck]

I don't think it's such a good idea to build nuclear power plants in earthquake sensitive areas....

[Resolute 14]

Well, 11 affected plants shut down properly with no incident. Japan's standards include specific procedures for when an earthquake hits. Not sure what went wrong here, but they'll learn and adapt.

That said, there is irony a power plant suffering an explosion because it lost power.

[TylerSVT]

Originally Posted by giver99

In North America??? Hell no, we will be fine. This was for anyone in Japan that might be in a fallout zone, if indeed there really is a bad incident. At this point, things seem to be uncertain.

Re read your first post, sounded like you were saying to do this in NA.

If you meant Japan, then yea. NA, no.

[Kybosh]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

I don't think it's such a good idea to build nuclear power plants in earthquake sensitive areas....

So . . . Japan should have no power plants? They don't have any oil or coal reserves (at least not in Japan). They might have significant natural gas reserves frozen on the ocean floor though that technology is far from proven and a long way off. Nuclear energy gets a bad rap because radioactivity and radiation is generally misunderstood by most people.

[SeeBass]

Originally Posted by worth

If you live in Canada, contact the following cable and satellite providers to subscribe to Al Jazeera English:
Bell TV: 516 - Cogeco: 182 - Rogers: 176 - Shaw: 513 - Videotron: 173

Al Jazeera is awesome. They are currently playing a muammar gaddafi autotune video.

yeah thanks it was only $3 a month

seeing how I have to pay for Fox news cause it is bundled with channels I DO want I guess it all evens out now.

[pylon]

If you have an ipad or iphone, download the Reuters news app. It is excellent. I have been using reuters pro on my iPad to keep tabs on this at the car show.

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by Kybosh

So . . . Japan should have no power plants? They don't have any oil or coal reserves (at least not in Japan). They might have significant natural gas reserves frozen on the ocean floor though that technology is far from proven and a long way off. Nuclear energy gets a bad rap because radioactivity and radiation is generally misunderstood by most people.

Did I say Japan should have no power plants?

The solutions could be as simple as moving the nuclear plants inland further, or place them on higher ground. Maybe they could build huge retaining walls around them or some other construction method.

BTW Japan does have coal reserves. Unfortunately their production costs are too high to compete so they import most of it from Australia and other places. I don't know for sure but I suspect the high production cost to extract coal in Japan comes from various scam global-warming/CO2 emission policies there.

Nuclear energy gets a bad rap because of incidents like this and what happened in Chernobyl, and it's a valid public safety concern.

[Cowperson]

Ran a ten km race in Kona, Hawaii this am. Apparently the pier for cruise ships has been condemned by damage from the tsunami and local hotels and stores in the downtown were damaged plus six houses were destroyed. Didn't see all that on the run, even though we were running alongside the seashore at one point and the beer was free afterwards at 8:30 in the morning as promised. Heard the Four Seasons on Maui was taken out by the tsunami waves.

Have some good video of our little bay here emptying and filling with water every few minutes yesterday after the tsunami threat passed. About two or three foot height oscillation and remarkable to see for a normally placid place. A natural koi pond near the beach was overrun and the fish died. The sea is still doing it to a lesser extent now but the beach is open so that's where I'm going.

Cowperson

[Kybosh]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

Did I say Japan should have no power plants?

The solutions could be as simple as moving the nuclear plants inland further, or place them on higher ground. Maybe they could build huge retaining walls around them or some other construction method.

BTW Japan does have coal reserves. Unfortunately their production costs are too high to compete so they import most of it from Australia and other places. I don't know for sure but I suspect the high production cost to extract coal in Japan comes from various scam global-warming/CO2 emission policies there.

Nuclear energy gets a bad rap because of incidents like this and what happened in Chernobyl, and it's a valid public safety concern.

No, you didn't say Japan should have no power plants. You also never said anything about a tsunami, you just said earthquake sensitive (which is all of Japan). I'm not in a position to say where nuclear plants should or should not be built, but most of the affected plants successfully dealt with the tsunami. The fact is, Japan imports most of it's resources and must heavily rely on nuclear energy to support it's populace.

As far as preparedness is concerned, I think Japan is passing with wild colours. Similar intensity quakes have historically been much more devastating.

[Delthefunky]

Originally Posted by Kybosh

...As far as preparedness is concerned, I think Japan is passing with wild colours. Similar intensity quakes have historically been much more devastating.

I second that. I am amazed after watching all the pictures/videos that more people weren't killed... especially considering there was only 10 minutes warning of the Tsunami. But we'll get a better idea of the true death toll in the days to come.

Just to add to the power plant argument... The plant was 40 years old.

[sergei_makarov]

So CNN just updated their "Breaking News" headlines with "Official: Nuclear Meltdown May Be Under Way", but was shotdown immediately in a live, in-studio interview with the Japanese Ambassador to US.

[Delthefunky]

Gotta love CNN... OFFICIAL.. MAYBE...

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by Kybosh

No, you didn't say Japan should have no power plants. You also never said anything about a tsunami, you just said earthquake sensitive (which is all of Japan).

I assumed that a tsunami is known as a natural result of an earthquake in Japan.

If this tsunami encroached as far as 7km or whatever, I think it would be common sense to locate a nuclear power facility much further inland than that.

You're right the Japanese are very good at designing their buildings and cities to withstand earthquakes, and have been for many years now.

[Kybosh]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

You're right the Japanese are very good at designing their buildings and cities to withstand earthquakes, and have been for many years now.

Whenever an event like this happens, I wonder how Canada's west coast would fare. I know that Vancouver has been trying to design and upgrade buildings to withstand earthquakes but I wonder how they rank against a country like Japan. I've never seen any tsunami or earthquake warning type infrastructure on Vancouver island or in the Vancouver area. I visit Vancouver occasionally but maybe someone living in the area could fill me in?

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by Kybosh

Whenever an event like this happens, I wonder how Canada's west coast would fare. I know that Vancouver has been trying to design and upgrade buildings to withstand earthquakes but I wonder how they rank against a country like Japan. I've never seen any tsunami or earthquake warning type infrastructure on Vancouver island or in the Vancouver area. I visit Vancouver occasionally but maybe someone living in the area could fill me in?

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source...81vvVuKTVkDF7w

"A prominent earthquake expert sounded the alarm about the vulnerability of private apartment and office towers in B.C. after the quake, saying authorities should start looking at "the many" apartment and office buildings that would likely sway and collapse."

[TheCommodoreAfro]

Originally Posted by Kybosh

No, you didn't say Japan should have no power plants. You also never said anything about a tsunami, you just said earthquake sensitive (which is all of Japan). I'm not in a position to say where nuclear plants should or should not be built, but most of the affected plants successfully dealt with the tsunami. The fact is, Japan imports most of it's resources and must heavily rely on nuclear energy to support it's populace.

As far as preparedness is concerned, I think Japan is passing with wild colours. Similar intensity quakes have historically been much more devastating.

Japan's prep prevented a lot of the collapsing - the quake was 7.9 here in Tokyo and outside of old buildings and reclaimed land, the damage was not as bad as initially thought. Sad thing though is that the death toll will likely rise in terms of multiples in the north. Entire towns and villages were wiped out and the media is just getting a hold of this.

This is from a little fishing town (with a nuclear reactor that shut down safely) called Onagawa. Nothing about this in the news yet, but destruction is massive.

http://globalvoicesonline.org/2011/0...n-i-once-knew/

The town of Minamisanriku is also missing 9500 people - half the population. This is going to get incredibly scary over the next few days as rescue teams reach destroyed areas.

[TheCommodoreAfro]

Originally Posted by sergei_makarov

So CNN just updated their "Breaking News" headlines with "Official: Nuclear Meltdown May Be Under Way", but was shotdown immediately in a live, in-studio interview with the Japanese Ambassador to US.

BBC, Al Jazeera and the NHK local doing great job. But you can almost feel CNN hoping/praying for a big disaster or some kind of massive looting in the streets of Tokyo.

[TheCommodoreAfro]

Originally Posted by transplant99

He is OK...he posted earlier in the thread.

IIRC he's also in the west part of Japan, which is largely physically unaffected by the quake.

[TheCommodoreAfro]

Originally Posted by giver99

Here's the best information on what to do if you are worried that you are in the fallout area for any of these reactors:
http://www.ki4u.com/guide.htm

Store lots of water right now! If the water coming out of the tap is grossly contaminated from everything else going on, consider using your hot water tank and toilet tanks, they should both be full of treatable water. I'm not saying you have to drink this, just store it to have on hand if its needed.

I don't want to paste the whole thing here, but these two items are pretty critical to get right:

You must decide FIRST if you need to prepare where you are, or attempt evacuation. The nature of the threat, your prior preparations, and your confidence in your sources of information should direct your decision. If you know already you will be preparing to stay at your own home or, at least, the immediate local area, go now to #2 below.
If you are considering evacuation, your decision requires very high confidence that it is worth the risk. You do not want to get stuck between your current location and your hoped for destination, as there will probably be no easy getting back. If you fail to get to your destination, you may be exposed without shelter, in a dangerous situation with little effective law enforcement, perhaps among panicked hordes of refugees. Whatever supplies you have may be limited then to what you can carry on foot. IF you are in a big city, AND you have relatives or friends in the country that you know are awaiting you, AND the roads between you and them are clear, AND the authorities are not yet restricting traffic, AND you have the means and fuel, evacuation may be a viable option for a limited time. DO NOT attempt evacuation if all of the above is not clearly known, or if the situation is deteriorating too quickly to assure the complete trip. You do not want to get stuck and/or become a refugee being herded along with panicked masses. If evacuation is truly a viable option, do not wait - GO NOW! Do so with as many of the supplies listed in #7 as possible. Better to be two days too early in arriving than two hours too late and getting snagged mid-way, potentially exposing your family to a worse fate than having stayed where you were. Because of the very real danger of getting caught in an evacuation stampede that stalls, almost all families will be better off making the best of it wherever they currently are.

---------------

Boiling or bleach water treatments will be used for cleaning your stored water later for drinking. (This is for killing bacteria, not for radiation contamination, which is never a concern for any stored and covered water containers or even sealed food.) Tap water recently put into clean containers won't likely need to be purified before using. To purify questionable water, bring it to a roiling boil and keep it there for 10 minutes at least. If you don't have the fuel to boil it, you can kill the bacteria by mixing in a good quality household bleach at the rate of 10 drops per gallon, and letting it sit for at least 1/2 an hour. The bleach should be at least 5.25% pure, like Clorox, but be sure it has no additives such as soap or fragrance. You can later get rid of the flat taste from boiling, or some of the chlorine taste when using bleach, by pouring it from one container to another several times

All this #### has been debunked (see my earlier post). Please stop posting this stuff as it increases the stress and amount of stuff people in the affected area have to deal with.