2011 NFL offseason thead. - Page 16 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Bobblehead · 03-12-2011, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

Exactly.

Your honor please accept exhibit A, this is a union leader confirming the continued existence of a union.

I can understand how people thought the 4 billion dollar war chest was disingenious but how can any even think that this decertification is legit in any way?

They are no longer a union; they are now considered a professional association.

And with the owners acting in concert to lock out a bunch of contractors with independent contracts the owners are now violating anti-trust statutes; or that is the argument. It has been done before.

This is all part a game they are playing. Between filings and appeals, it may be months before they sit down together again.

ResAlien · 03-13-2011, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shermanator

If there is indeed a lockout, I'm wondering if some of the fringe players decide to play in the CFL this year...

Seriously doubt it. The salary cap for an entire CFL team is less than many guys see as a signing bonus. Why chance losing your entire career for a couple bucks in the CFL? Not going to happen.

Edit: Realized you said "fringe guys". Even then, not worth it. If there is no season I can't see anyone jumping ship to the CFL, maybe an aging fringe guy at best.

Flames in 07 · 03-13-2011, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

They are no longer a union; they are now considered a professional association.

And with the owners acting in concert to lock out a bunch of contractors with independent contracts the owners are now violating anti-trust statutes; or that is the argument. It has been done before.

This is all part a game they are playing. Between filings and appeals, it may be months before they sit down together again.

So basically players are allowed to strike. But the owners can't lock them out? Doesn't seem fair to me.

Cecil Terwilliger · 03-13-2011, 01:23 PM

And no drug policy for the forseeable future.

Let the coke and steroid induced binges begin!

Sainters7 · 03-13-2011, 01:39 PM

The last couple pages of this thread makes me sad. To talk "NFL" these days you pretty much have to be an Economics major. I'll see y'all in the fall...hopefully.

Oh, and draft day. Pretty much the only bright spot on the NFL calendar for the forseeable future...

calgaryrocks · 03-13-2011, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ResAlien

Seriously doubt it. The salary cap for an entire CFL team is less than many guys see as a signing bonus. Why chance losing your entire career for a couple bucks in the CFL? Not going to happen.

Edit: Realized you said "fringe guys". Even then, not worth it. If there is no season I can't see anyone jumping ship to the CFL, maybe an aging fringe guy at best.

I don't think that many players get signing bonuses of almost 5 million....
some of them might go play just for fun, but yea it would be more the fringe players, and they would still have to make the teams they tryout for. NHL players went and played in Europe in the lockout, even though most of them probably didn't need the money, the motivation was likely more to keep playing, improve and stay in game shape. A player who is improving may want to play in the CFL so that they get to keep playing, instead of sitting around.
of course the problem for NFL guys is once they sign they have a contract for 2 years, so it would be a huge risk if the NFL does come back this year, they would not be making near as much as they would have. of course some players who may not make the NFL teams will come to the CFL earlier, in June instead of when they would have been cut in September normally

PeteLFan · 03-13-2011, 02:02 PM

Is the draft still going to be held?

rubecube · 03-13-2011, 02:03 PM

^^ I think you'll see guys likely head to the UFL before the CFL.

Pagal4321 · 03-13-2011, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeteLFan

Is the draft still going to be held?

There will still be a draft, the only trades that can be made are with draft picks.

I'm surprised there has been no talk of the deal that the NFLPA left on the table. It sounded like it was a pretty decent proposal the owners put together.

Bobblehead · 03-14-2011, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

So basically players are allowed to strike. But the owners can't lock them out? Doesn't seem fair to me.

The players aren't striking. They want to continue with the same rules as currently exist.

The owners opted out of the current agreement early (as was their right).

The players want to keep the status quo, but if they are going to be asked to give up something, they want something back in return. If they agree to a rookie salary cap, the players still want the same amount of payroll. The owners want a rookie cap but want to be able to pocket a portion of the savings. If the owners want an 18 game regular season, the players want additional health and pension benefits. (This is how the argument was framed before the most recent discussions)

Essentially the owners want to get a larger share of the revenue. Some of the smaller market teams have been complaining about their share, saying the TV revenue split is nice, but they can't generate the same gate revenue; so with overall revenues going up and players' share going up with it, small market owners are essentially going backwards as far as revenue goes.

Other owners have complained that a large reason for some of the revenue increase is the new stadiums they have built. This has increased the revenue, which increases the players' share, but new stadiums are ultra-expensive and so they want a much larger portion of revenues to pay for these

The players are saying a large portion of NFL revenue is from TV contracts and if the owners can't agree how to split those billions of dollars, the players don't want to make up the difference from their own paycheques. Owners say they have franchises losing money, players see billion dollar TV contracts and say they won't believe it unless they can see the books. In the mean time, players are learning more and more about the long term health costs in their already short professional careers and don't want to give up anything since they are the ones shredding their knees and turning their brains to mush.

Bottom line is there is billions of dollars and both sides, who are both already wealthy.

I think the final offers sounds pretty good, but that offer was leaked from the owners' side and you shouldn't trust any info leaked in the middle of a negotiation, especially there public perception is being courted. The owners' knew the players' had a hard deadline for them to file for decertification. Why did the owners stand up the players' negotiating team the night before then wait until the last second (or even too late, depending upon who you want to believe) to table the offer?

Everything you have heard and will hear until there is a final settlement will be posturing.

Bobblehead · 03-14-2011, 10:02 AM

And as per Adam Schefter:

Quote:

Being told that a ruling on the injunction to block the NFL's lockout is more likely to be closer to a month than a week.

So it will be up to a month before anyone even knows if it is legal for the owners to lock the players out.

PIMking · 03-14-2011, 03:43 PM

LOL the NFLPA is putting a plan together trying to get the rookies that are to be drafted not show up to the draft.

But wait a tick, isn't the union no longer?

Bobblehead · 03-15-2011, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PIMking

LOL the NFLPA is putting a plan together trying to get the rookies that are to be drafted not show up to the draft.

But wait a tick, isn't the union no longer?

They are a professional association.

transplant99 · 03-15-2011, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

They are a professional association.

that has absolutely nothing to do with college players and free agents who have no contract with any team.

Its absolutely ridiculous they are even trying a tactic like this. Petty and small minded to even bring this kind of thing up. Those to be drafted have zero to do with them, yet are being put in a really difficult position. Do they go and meet their future employers who will make them wealthy if they live up to their positions or do they avoid doing that in order to please their future UNION brothers?

I am really starting to hate the players in this thing.

Bobblehead · 03-15-2011, 09:37 AM

You mean the guys who will be protecting them in the pocket, throwing them the ball, you know, their teammates?

The owners complain the the players always intended to decertify and weren't honest in their negotiating yet the owners were the ones who negotiated into their TV contract a guaranteed revenue stream if there was a labour stoppage. The owners who took a break to consult, then decided to break for the night and left the players at the bargaining table stewing.

There is PLENTY of mud that can be thrown.

Yes, these players to be drafted are being put in a tough spot, and I disagree with the pressure being put on them. These potential first rounders should have the chance to enjoy being drafted.

PeteLFan · 03-15-2011, 09:53 AM

The players are just greedy. A bunch of greedy, money hungry dirt bags. Lock them out for good, and lets get replacments ready to go.

transplant99 · 03-15-2011, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

You mean the guys who will be protecting them in the pocket, throwing them the ball, you know, their teammates?

yes them....to try and pressure these kids who have no dog in the fight at this point is obnoxious to me.

Quote:

The owners complain the the players always intended to decertify and weren't honest in their negotiating yet the owners were the ones who negotiated into their TV contract a guaranteed revenue stream if there was a labour stoppage.

Pretty smart business if you can make a deal like that if you ask me....but no idea what the hell it has to do with the players "union" being a bunch of dirtbags.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeteLFan

The players are just greedy. A bunch of greedy, money hungry dirt bags. Lock them out for good, and lets get replacments ready to go.

Greed runs both ways in these things, don't kid yourself.

Bobblehead · 03-15-2011, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by transplant99

yes them....to try and pressure these kids who have no dog in the fight at this point is obnoxious to me.

I agree that it is really poor form to put those kids in that position. Especially since the second their name is called they are theoretically locked out.

Quote:

Pretty smart business if you can make a deal like that if you ask me....but no idea what the hell it has to do with the players "union" being a bunch of dirtbags.

A smart deal that was quashed by Judge Doty.

Quote:

Greed runs both ways in these things, don't kid yourself.

100% agree. Both sides are screwing with the other.

Hell, they are arguing about who is walking out/locking out who.

Bobblehead · 03-15-2011, 11:17 AM

I may need to stop following NFL Twitters for a while. The vitriolic hyperbole is getting tough to handle.

Sainters7 · 03-15-2011, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

I may need to stop following NFL Twitters for a while. The vitriolic hyperbole is getting tough to handle.

Agreed. I almost sent my first ever tweet the other day because I wanted to tell Drew Brees to shut up, he was doing some serious spin this week on there. He seems to have taken the hint though (not from me, I didn't send it. But I'm sure someone else sent something), as for the first time since this started he's tweeting about things other than the lockout again.