Vaccines don't cause autism (duh)

[peakoil]

Why don't you go look up Maurice Hilleman? You're out of your league.

[FlamesAddiction]

Well, this won't help:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2...nes-japan.html

[evman150]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

It sounds like, if it were your (and others in the thread) choice, a public forced-vaccination program would be favoured.

I have absolutely no fataing clue why it is not compulsory. It's like making stopping at red lights optional.

I have resisted posting in this ignorant cesspool of a thread for a long time now, but I've had enough.

My opinion: Any parent who doesn't get their child vaccinated is morally repugnant and should be held criminally responsible for any deaths from that disease in the health district (if not a wider scope). You are still free to do whatever you want with your kids, just like you are free to run a red light or murder a person. But if you get caught, you deal with the consequences.

I am all for civil liberties, but when you start infringing on my rights and the rights of my family, then we have a problem.

[robocop]

Originally Posted by evman150

My opinion: Any parent who doesn't get their child vaccinated is morally repugnant and should be held criminally responsible for any deaths from that disease in the health district (if not a wider scope). You are still free to do whatever you want with your kids, just like you are free to run a red light or murder a person. But if you get caught, you deal with the consequences.

I am all for civil liberties, but when you start infringing on my rights and the rights of my family, then we have a problem.

how is someone not wanting a vaccine infringing on your rights? I'm not anti-vaccine but this makes no sense. If you don't want measles, get the vaccination. What gives you the right to tell other people what to put in their body? Shouldn't the only people who die of these diseases be those who refused vaccination anyways or is there something I'm missing? This seems fairly analogous to the fluoride argument.

[Nage Waza]

Robocop, what you are missing is that not everyone has vaccines for everything right away. For example, infants do not get the vaccinations for everything the moment they are born. So when I take my young son to the doctor, someone else may be there with the measles, because that fool did not get vaccinated. So rather than living amongst a population of vaccinated people, we are among many people who are keeping assorted diseases alive, simply because they have been duped by a bunch of quacks.
I think what I typed up has been said numerous times in this thread by assorted people. If you don't get the picture by now, there is no point even debating anymore.
You are getting immunized daily by assorted bugs that are all over the place...vaccinations are a controlled immunization of some of the worst things we encountered over the last several hundred years.

[robocop]

Is this really a nationwide issue or an irrational fear? I have heard of isolated cases but nothing widespread, not saying it's not happening. I wish they'd just find some preservatives that are obviously safe (as in indisputable) and this whole thing would just go away. I've never come across a single person who has contracted a serious disease such as measles that they should have gotten a vaccination for so it's hard to correlate the stories.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by robocop

I've never come across a single person who has contracted a serious disease such as measles that they should have gotten a vaccination for so it's hard to correlate the stories.

I'll bet that most everyone you know, including yourself, was vaccinated against all sorts of serious diseases, so the reason you don't know a single person is...

[robocop]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

I'll bet that most everyone you know, including yourself, was vaccinated against all sorts of serious diseases, so the reason you don't know a single person is...

yeah that's great and all and completely irrelevant. point being these guys are claiming vaccinations should be mandatory and I don't see the issue in society so if there's evidence for it please show me.

[Crazy Bacon Legs]

Originally Posted by robocop

Is this really a nationwide issue or an irrational fear? I have heard of isolated cases but nothing widespread, not saying it's not happening. I wish they'd just find some preservatives that are obviously safe (as in indisputable) and this whole thing would just go away. I've never come across a single person who has contracted a serious disease such as measles that they should have gotten a vaccination for so it's hard to correlate the stories.

My brain actually just hemorrhaged from the number of logical fallacies in your arguments.

My brain is now bleeding, and I hold you personally responsible.

[Hanni]

Here is your correlation, measles cases before and after the introduction of vaccination.



Just because you weren't alive to actually witness the near eradication of many diseases in developed countries doesn't mean vaccines weren't the cause.

[ernie]

In many places vaccination is essentially mandatory. Where we live our kids will not be accepted into school without being vaccinated for most diseases including Hep B. Your choice is to home school or get vaccinations which isn't much of a choice. I have no problem with it.

They also need to know how to swim before grade 1 for some reason.

For those that have never known a single person who got a serious disease I suggest asking a parent (or likely grandparent for these folks) what it was like before vaccines for measles, small pox etc. For example, while I personally didn't know her, my aunt died of whooping cough when she was a toddler.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Well, this won't help:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2...nes-japan.html

And turns out to be unrelated.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/story/...e.html?ref=rss


See, this is the problem with the anti-vax crowd. Kids get shots ---> kids die therefore shots caused death meanwhile it turns out that isn't the case at all.

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by robocop

how is someone not wanting a vaccine infringing on your rights? I'm not anti-vaccine but this makes no sense. If you don't want measles, get the vaccination. What gives you the right to tell other people what to put in their body? Shouldn't the only people who die of these diseases be those who refused vaccination anyways or is there something I'm missing? This seems fairly analogous to the fluoride argument.

But aren't the vaccinations for minors who don't have the mental capacity to make the decision on their own. So the decision rests on the parents who aren't the ones who get the diseases the vaccinations are intended to protect. If the parents are so willfully negligent to deny their kids the vaccines, the state should step in to protect the child from their poor parenting.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

And turns out to be unrelated.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/story/...e.html?ref=rss


See, this is the problem with the anti-vax crowd. Kids get shots ---> kids die therefore shots caused death meanwhile it turns out that isn't the case at all.

I'm not anti-vax (I have been vaccinated by choice for many things). My position from the very beginning was that people should have a choice and people who choose not to do not derserve all the flack they get. I am anti-mass hysteria and think there should be priorities for vaccinations. The whole H1N1 fiasco was sickening and disheartening.

I am going to hold judgement on the above story until they actually release how all the children died. It doesn't even say if the medical experts have seen the results of the post-mortems (or if the results are even ready).

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by robocop

yeah that's great and all and completely irrelevant. point being these guys are claiming vaccinations should be mandatory and I don't see the issue in society so if there's evidence for it please show me.

Completely irrelevant? Seriously?

The reason you don't see the "issue", the reason nobody you've ever known has had one of these diseases, is because everyone you know was vaccinated against these diseases.

There's your correlation. There's your evidence.

[joe_mullen]

Originally Posted by robocop

Is this really a nationwide issue or an irrational fear? I have heard of isolated cases but nothing widespread, not saying it's not happening. I wish they'd just find some preservatives that are obviously safe (as in indisputable) and this whole thing would just go away. I've never come across a single person who has contracted a serious disease such as measles that they should have gotten a vaccination for so it's hard to correlate the stories.

i'm probably dragging out this thread longer than it needs to be, but i really need to know the answer to one of your statements. which preservatives have NOT been shown to be safe? would literally hundreds of different national departments of health allow these to be used on their pediatric populations if they have not been shown to be completely safe in numerous rigorous trials?

as for the last comment about not having come across a single person with these serious diseases, could that be due to the fact that you don't work in the medical field (or so i assume) and that until recently these conditions were not seen. there is a whole generation of physicians that have never seen these conditions due to the effectiveness of vaccines, which makes potential outbreaks even more worrisome as the initial cases could easily be missed.

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Completely irrelevant? Seriously?

The reason you don't see the "issue", the reason nobody you've ever known has had one of these diseases, is because everyone you know was vaccinated against these diseases.

There's your correlation. There's your evidence.

Exactly, if most of these people lived in the first 60 years of the last century and prior, they would be of a different opinion. Vaccines have done wonders for most the world, but the downside of that is this false sense of security, which leads to this anti-vaccination crowd.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Completely irrelevant? Seriously?

The reason you don't see the "issue", the reason nobody you've ever known has had one of these diseases, is because everyone you know was vaccinated against these diseases.

There's your correlation. There's your evidence.

Better reply would have just been:

*whoooosh*

[chemgear]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/story/...breaks-us.html

The United States seems to be on track to have more measles cases than any year in more than a decade, with virtually all cases linked to other countries, including Europe where there's a big outbreak.

[Thor]

Mommy instincts winning!