Guns. Lots of Guns.

[SportsJunky]

I've lived and worked a number of places. Idaho has the scariest gun culture that I've come across.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by SportsJunky

I've lived and worked a number of places. Idaho has the scariest gun culture that I've come across.

The guy could not fathom that I had no issue with our lack of carry laws. I'm trying to explain there is literally no reason to carry in Canada unless you are a Police officer. Those of us that have handguns, do it for sport. How dangerous can Idaho be?

And this was literally one of the nicest old guys I've ever met. Retired paramedic, sweet little wife from Minnesota with the mid-western pseudo Canadian mannerisms. But it simply did not register with them, that you couldn't walk into a random store in Canada, and walk out with a 9mm pistol in 10 minutes, and throw it in a holster on your belt.It's ingrained in them, and you can't really blame them if that's what you've known your whole life.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by pylon

The guy could not fathom that I had no issue with our lack of carry laws. I'm trying to explain there is literally no reason to carry in Canada unless you are a Police officer. Those of us that have handguns, do it for sport. How dangerous can Idaho be?

And this was literally one of the nicest old guys I've ever met. Retired paramedic, sweet little wife from Minnesota with the mid-western pseudo Canadian mannerisms. But it simply did not register with them, that you couldn't walk into a random store in Canada, and walk out with a 9mm pistol in 10 minutes, and throw it in a holster on your belt.It's ingrained in them, and you can't really blame them if that's what you've known your whole life.

It is kind of odd how certain things are able to be taken away from people over time but % of households guns in the US have stayed at a steady level for decades.

Smoking was +40% of people in the 60's and now its down to 14%. Guns just chug along. Probably because guns became a political issue so you end up in a stasis in the US where essentially any political issue becomes like a 60-40 split on even things where you'd expect moves in popularity.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by pylon

I would like to point out this conversation is a lot more civil than I expected. I really thought my post was a potential fuse to a powder keg.

Same. I commented on this topic on r/calgary recently and... wow. Turns out I'm right up there with Hitler and Stalin because I own guns. I was told I'm just one bad day away from killing dozens of people. It was.... an interesting conversation

[TKB]

Originally Posted by btimbit

Same. I commented on this topic on r/calgary recently and... wow. Turns out I'm right up there with Hitler and Stalin because I own guns. I was told I'm just one bad day away from killing dozens of people. It was.... an interesting conversation

I wonder if they also feel that everyone that owns a knife block in their kitchens are also one bad day away from going on a stabbing spree…

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by TKB

I wonder if they also feel that everyone that owns a knife block in their kitchens are also one bad day away from going on a stabbing spree…

Not to play devil’s advocate but… probably not, considering the main purpose of a gun is to shoot and kill living things and the main purpose of a kitchen knife is to cut up dead things and produce. While suggesting a guy like btimbit is a moment away from a shooting spree is stupid, these false equivalencies are also completely useless.

They might say the same about people with combat knives, though, which would also be silly and wrong.

[btimbit]

Yeah that's like the other argument you see thrown out too, where someone will go "Well ban vehicles, they kill more people than guns!"

That's not a discussion, that's an attempt at deflection. That's silly.

[speede5]

Originally Posted by btimbit

Same. I commented on this topic on r/calgary recently and... wow. Turns out I'm right up there with Hitler and Stalin because I own guns. I was told I'm just one bad day away from killing dozens of people. It was.... an interesting conversation

I thought Hitler took peoples guns away and then look what happened? Which side was he on?

[btimbit]

You know, with Hitler, the more I learn about that guy, the more I don’t care for him

[pylon]

Originally Posted by btimbit

Same. I commented on this topic on r/calgary recently and... wow. Turns out I'm right up there with Hitler and Stalin because I own guns. I was told I'm just one bad day away from killing dozens of people. It was.... an interesting conversation

I've heard that one before. I've also heard the "What's gonna stop you from blowing your brains out if something tragic happens in your life? huh? HUH?"

"Gee, I dunno? I've never suffered a nasty breakup, a depressing family tragedy, been mouthed off by a neighbor, or been in a heated confrontation EVER! Phew... good thing! I and those around me are lucky to be alive!"

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by pylon

I've heard that one before. I've also heard the "What's gonna stop you from blowing your brains out if something tragic happens in your life? huh? HUH?"

"Gee, I dunno? I've never suffered a nasty breakup, a depressing family tragedy, been mouthed off by a neighbor, or been in a heated confrontation EVER! Phew... good thing! I and those around me are lucky to be alive!"

I think you can acknowledge though, that these things happen all the time in the US. Like, probably multiple times a day.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

It is kind of odd how certain things are able to be taken away from people over time but % of households guns in the US have stayed at a steady level for decades.

Smoking was +40% of people in the 60's and now its down to 14%. Guns just chug along. Probably because guns became a political issue so you end up in a stasis in the US where essentially any political issue becomes like a 60-40 split on even things where you'd expect moves in popularity.

It's been proven beyond any doubt that cigarettes will kill you but I suppose the odds of getting shot aren't high enough in the minds of a lot of Americans. To be fair it's pretty ingrained in their culture like no other industrialized nation. I've been on big car forums (Bimmerpost for example) where there are threads on what guns they keep in their glove box. Talking guns is the last thing I would think of discussing in a car forum but I'm a Canadian and can't relate to their casual gun discussions.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by pylon

The guy could not fathom that I had no issue with our lack of carry laws. I'm trying to explain there is literally no reason to carry in Canada unless you are a Police officer. Those of us that have handguns, do it for sport. How dangerous can Idaho be?

And this was literally one of the nicest old guys I've ever met. Retired paramedic, sweet little wife from Minnesota with the mid-western pseudo Canadian mannerisms. But it simply did not register with them, that you couldn't walk into a random store in Canada, and walk out with a 9mm pistol in 10 minutes, and throw it in a holster on your belt.It's ingrained in them, and you can't really blame them if that's what you've known your whole life.

Depends....have they been to the Stampede yet?

You're right though, its crazy how ingrained it is in their culture.

"But how do you protect and defend yourself tho??"

Um. We speak calmly and rationally as we await for the Police to arrive.

The only people who should be wandering about in public with guns are the people we pay specifically to wander about, in public....with guns.

Just them though. Its not a competition.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I think you can acknowledge though, that these things happen all the time in the US. Like, probably multiple times a day.

Sure, and would most definitely be a bigger problem here if I could go get a gun at walmart whenever that mood strikes me. Not really an apples-to-apples comparison though

That's one of the most frustrating things about this discussion to me though, is when someone start's talking about the US. Not just you Fuzz, plenty of discussion on the last few pages about it too.

Yeah, the US is ####ed. Case study of why gun control is a good thing. We've already had good gun control in Canada for decades though, so let's keep US discussion to the US shooting thread.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by pylon

I've heard that one before. I've also heard the "What's gonna stop you from blowing your brains out if something tragic happens in your life? huh? HUH?"

"Gee, I dunno? I've never suffered a nasty breakup, a depressing family tragedy, been mouthed off by a neighbor, or been in a heated confrontation EVER! Phew... good thing! I and those around me are lucky to be alive!"

But statistically people are at a higher risk of completing suicide attempts when guns are owned. So despite the unnessecary, over the top way they presented it to you "Huh, HUH!" the premise is not wrong.

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/magazin.../guns-suicide/

About 85 percent of suicide attempts with a firearm end in death. (Drug overdose, the most widely used method in suicide attempts, is fatal in less than 3 percent of cases.) Moreover, guns are an irreversible solution to what is often a passing crisis. Suicidal individuals who take pills or inhale car exhaust or use razors have time to reconsider their actions or summon help. With a firearm, once the trigger is pulled, there’s no turning back.

found that rates of firearm suicides in states with the highest rates of gun ownership are 3.7 times higher for men and 7.9 times higher for women, compared with states with the lowest gun ownership—though the rates of non-firearm suicides are about the same. A gun in the home raises the suicide risk for everyone: gun owner, spouse and children alike.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I think you can acknowledge though, that these things happen all the time in the US. Like, probably multiple times a day.

That's more a problem with who they are allowing to obtain guns, and how easy they are to obtain. Stand your ground and carry laws don't help either.

Almost all of these mass shootings are "Weapon was legally obtained by the angry, jaded 18 year old from _____ retailer days after telling the world how much he hated it on Facebook."

A similar'ish weapon in Canada would take a minimum of 4 months to have in your possession if everything went perfectly smooth. And you'd only have a 5 round capacity. (Albeit most pinned semi-auto rifle magazines take minutes to modify to 30 rounds.)

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by btimbit

Sure, and would most definitely be a bigger problem here if I could go get a gun at walmart whenever that mood strikes me. Not really an apples-to-apples comparison though

That's one of the most frustrating things about this discussion to me though, is when someone start's talking about the US. Not just you Fuzz, plenty of discussion on the last few pages about it too.

Yeah, the US is ####ed. Case study of why gun control is a good thing. We've already had good gun control in Canada for decades though, so let's keep US discussion to the US shooting thread.

Sure, but Pylon presented a bunch of things that would send someone to grab their gun, and mocked it as a thing that could happen. I'm just saying if the gun is easy to get, it does happen, and it happens all the time. Hell, it happened in Calgary a few months ago on 17th ave. Now, yes, these were presumably illegal guns.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by pylon

That's more a problem with who they are allowing to obtain guns, and how easy they are to obtain. Stand your ground and carry laws don't help either.

Almost all of these mass shootings are "Weapon was legally obtained by the angry, jaded 18 year old from _____ retailer days after telling the world how much he hated it on Facebook."

A similar'ish weapon in Canada would take a minimum of 4 months to have in your possession if everything went perfectly smooth. And you'd only have a 5 round capacity. (Albeit most pinned semi-auto rifle magazines take minutes to modify to 30 rounds.)

Good reason to not allow them at all in Canada.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Good reason to not allow them at all in Canada.

Why? Have there been a lot of cases of them being used in murders here that I'm not aware of?

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by btimbit

Why? Have there been a lot of cases of them being used in murders here that I'm not aware of?

If the restriction is ineffective, then it isn't doing it's job. Unless a suitable restriction can be found, then it makes sense to ban them. Unless you want to argue that we should in fact have large capacity magazines be legal. But I suspect that is an uphill battle, becuase there is no justification for them, hunting or otherwise.