PGT: President-Elect Donald J Trump

[ernie]

Originally Posted by nik-

The facts also don't matter when the facts have no impact on your life whatsoever.

Why is someone in some small town with no jobs supposed to be swayed by a jobs report showing a decrease in unemployment when it doesn't affect them at all?

If your reality is shuttered factories, what difference does the reality in another county make?

Deal with reality instead of hoping reality will change.

A federal government can guide the general direction of an economy and make the environment favorable for full employment. They can not and SHOULD not be involved on that small local level.

Manufacturing has lost 250,000 jobs this year yet the economy has created a whole mess more overall. Those jobs aren't coming back. No matter how many deals someone wants to make those jobs will continue to move out of country.

That says in order to participate you need to shift your expectations. You need to deal in reality. There will always be some manufacturing in the US but the economy is shifting and people need to shift with that.

It's a horrible truth, I understand, but it's the truth.

[photon]

To be fair, it's not just the # of jobs alone, but the nature of the jobs matters as well. A $40/hr union factory job being replaced with two $15/hr service industry jobs looks like a loss to the person who had the factory job.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by ernie

Deal with reality instead of hoping reality will change.

A federal government can guide the general direction of an economy and make the environment favorable for full employment. They can not and SHOULD not be involved on that small local level.

Manufacturing has lost 250,000 jobs this year yet the economy has created a whole mess more overall. Those jobs aren't coming back. No matter how many deals someone wants to make those jobs will continue to move out of country.

That says in order to participate you need to shift your expectations. You need to deal in reality. There will always be some manufacturing in the US but the economy is shifting and people need to shift with that.

It's a horrible truth, I understand, but it's the truth.

And people are voting for someone who said they would stop that. He won't, but they believed him.

That is their action.

How do you expect them to deal with their reality? It's pretty easy to just say "move to where there are jobs" but not everyone has that option.

[photon]

Looks like Trump's not going to block the AT&T / Time Warner deal after all.

AT&T is reportedly feeling confident about its ability to buy Time Warner after meeting with President-elect Donald Trump's transition team—even though Trump himself vowed to block the merger during his campaign.

"Donald Trump’s transition team has reassured AT&T that its $85.4 billion acquisition of Time Warner will be scrutinized without prejudice," the Financial Times reported yesterday. "After talking with the president-elect’s team, AT&T executives are confident that their deal has a good chance of passing regulatory scrutiny, people informed about the conversation said."

...

As he prepares to shift the Federal Communications Commission from Democratic to Republican control, Trump has also appointed advisors who want to reduce regulatory burdens on telecom companies. That's likely good news for telecom companies that want to increase consolidation and face fewer consumer protection regulations.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2...to-trump-team/

[ResAlien]

I'm shocked to find out there's gambling in Casablanca. Shocked!

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by nik-

The facts also don't matter when the facts have no impact on your life whatsoever.

Why is someone in some small town with no jobs supposed to be swayed by a jobs report showing a decrease in unemployment when it doesn't affect them at all?

If your reality is shuttered factories, what difference does the reality in another county make?

There's geography, and then there's the kinds of jobs that are being created. Telling a 50 year old who used to work at the local plant that he can go to university and become a software developer, or maybe become a personal trainer or a waiter at an upscale restaurant, isn't much help.

We need much better systems in place to identify skills that are in demand, and get training for adults who want to move into those jobs. We can't rely on the market to do this, as companies no longer take on the role of training employees. We need information and road-maps shared on a national level.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by photon

To be fair, it's not just the # of jobs alone, but the nature of the jobs matters as well. A $40/hr union factory job being replaced with two $15/hr service industry jobs looks like a loss to the person who had the factory job.

The $40 union worker who lost that job because his union kept fighting to get his wage up to a level that is not sustainable, voted in the ultimate capitalist/union buster to get his job back. The irony is dripping!

[Flamenspiel]

Originally Posted by ernie

Deal with reality instead of hoping reality will change.

A federal government can guide the general direction of an economy and make the environment favorable for full employment. They can not and SHOULD not be involved on that small local level.

Manufacturing has lost 250,000 jobs this year yet the economy has created a whole mess more overall. Those jobs aren't coming back. No matter how many deals someone wants to make those jobs will continue to move out of country.

That says in order to participate you need to shift your expectations. You need to deal in reality. There will always be some manufacturing in the US but the economy is shifting and people need to shift with that.

It's a horrible truth, I understand, but it's the truth.

That's a very narrow perspective, offshoring is not just about jobs that are gone, its also about the new jobs being off-shored. Engineering, law, technology, and IT technologies are in danger of being off-shored as well. These jobs are off-shored at the margin and 10-15% tax breaks are enough to keep the local economy moving in many cases.

Its lead what is called "near shoring", it happening in New Brunswick, Ontario, Nova Scotia BC(film), and Quebec. Tax advantages are happening for keeping the work local. Its a valid public policy goal and has a lot of support among liberals.

Japan is already doing this as Nikon and Canon are bringing their work back to Japan. Democrats were supporting the "Buy American" provision and this is potentially a bi-partisan effort. Trump is not out on the fringe here.

The ultimate threat to these jobs will be automation, in the meantime there is no need to be in such a rush to hull out our local industries.

[photon]

A pretty great email response from the incoming secretary of defense commenting about being too busy to read.

The problem with being too busy to read is that you learn by experience (or by your men’s experience), i.e. the hard way. By reading, you learn through others’ experiences, generally a better way to do business, especially in our line of work where the consequences of incompetence are so final for young men.

Thanks to my reading, I have never been caught flat-footed by any situation, never at a loss for how any problem has been addressed (successfully or unsuccessfully) before. It doesn’t give me all the answers, but it lights what is often a dark path ahead.

http://www.businessinsider.com/gener...-viral-2016-11

There's a theory going around that Romney is subjecting himself to the public humiliation he's getting because he actually cares about his country and thinks he'll be in a better position to mitigate Trump if necessary as SoS. Or he could just be craven but I'm picking the former heh.

Mattis doesn't sound like the kind of guy that would abide fools.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Flamenspiel

Its lead what is called "near shoring", it happening in New Brunswick, Ontario, Nova Scotia and Quebec. Tax advantages are happening for keeping the work local. Its a valid public policy goal and has a lot of support among liberals.

.

Can you clarify what you mean by this? Do you mean that the US is near shoring to Canada?

[direwolf]

This is worth a read. Very funny, and absolutely spot-on.

http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-signs-...ing-president/

Voting for Trump because you think the system is corrupt is like buying a car on eBay because you hate dealerships. You weren't wrong in your assessment, but your solution was impulsive and grotesquely misinformed.

Imagine walking into an airport, screaming that you should get to fly the plane, and then, to your complete dumbf--kery, having that demand fulfilled. Suddenly you're sitting at 40,000 feet in front of a massive jumble of switches and lights and have no clue what to do. That would be a nightmare. For everyone on board.

[ernie]

Originally Posted by Flamenspiel

That's a very narrow perspective, offshoring is not just about jobs that are gone, its also about the new jobs being off-shored. Engineering, law, technology, and IT technologies are in danger of being off-shored as well. These jobs are off-shored at the margin and 10-15% tax breaks are enough to keep the local economy moving in many cases.

Its lead what is called "near shoring", it happening in New Brunswick, Ontario, Nova Scotia and Quebec. Tax advantages are happening for keeping the work local. Its a valid public policy goal and has a lot of support among liberals.

Japan is already doing this as Nikon and Canon are bringing their work back to Japan. Democrats were supporting the "Buy American" provision and this is potentially a bi-partisan effort. Trump is not out on the fringe here.

The ultimate threat to these jobs will be automation, in the meantime there is no need to be in such a rush to hull out our local industries.

It's not a narrow perspective it's what is happening. You can not expect to keep manufacturing jobs in a country that, in general, has much higher costs to manufacture and live. The reality is the US is not a third or second world country. That isn't going to change.

And you have pressure from the other side of things. The same people that want the manufacturing jobs back teach their kids to get that education and encourage to do so so that they don't need to take that manufacturing job. The economy and market has to change to reflect those changes and it is. I understand it's hard on those places with the manufacturing losses. I live in such an area and know that very very well.

To your point...yes those other professions are also starting to get shipped out. And I'm not saying things can't be done to encourage local business and local jobs to help reverse or curtail that flow. But for manufacturing it isn't going to happen. For those other and in many cases highly educated jobs I agree fully that it needs to be looked at closely and policies can be put in place. That is where the attention of federal and state governments need to be because that is what the people who are 15-25 right now are going to need in 15-20 years. You can't sell that to the rural communities that lost a factory any more than you can sell doing nothing for them. They also don't care that you are putting some stuff in place to encourage more doctors, lawyers and engineers remain or have jobs in the cities.

People need to understand that when it comes to country direction etc that you can't simply focus on the short term me me me. It's a different frame of mind than what the US has culturally believed. I understand that. It's a frame of mind that is also coming more to the forefront because just like each generation is encouraged to go out and get that education they are also encouraged to look around them and do things for the greater good. It's not socialism to suggest one should make a decision based on the greater good of the country as a whole and your neighbors rather than what is necessarily best for you. But the US isn't there....yet.

In short, until there are some politicians that actually want to do the right things instead of the easy things that get them re-elected the issues aren't going to change.

The Tea Party, Trump and GOP as a whole aren't those guys. The democrats really aren't either but I think that is where most of the people who can provide that direction and vision live. Some center republicans as well I guess...perhaps Romney fits this. Other than that there is a majority of people that want to shape the country based on what they personally believe and nothing else. That isn't good.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

There's geography, and then there's the kinds of jobs that are being created. Telling a 50 year old who used to work at the local plant that he can go to university and become a software developer, or maybe become a personal trainer or a waiter at an upscale restaurant, isn't much help.

We need much better systems in place to identify skills that are in demand, and get training for adults who want to move into those jobs. We can't rely on the market to do this, as companies no longer take on the role of training employees. We need information and road-maps shared on a national level.

yup but how does that look? 1000 people with high school education lose their factory job. (they have only a high school education not because they are stupid but because that's all that was needed to work on the factory). How do you get 1000 people back to school? Is there a school? are there teachers? who's paying for this? Can people just pick up and move? etc...

[wittynickname]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

So anyways...

A Pro Trump superpac is fighting to stop the Wisconsin recount and has filed a federal lawsuit. Michigan's AG is also fighting a recount in his state. Trump only won Michigan by 10K votes I believe.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/1...recount-232121

But there were millions of illegal voters! A recount would find them!

Originally Posted by ernie

Deal with reality instead of hoping reality will change.

A federal government can guide the general direction of an economy and make the environment favorable for full employment. They can not and SHOULD not be involved on that small local level.

Manufacturing has lost 250,000 jobs this year yet the economy has created a whole mess more overall. Those jobs aren't coming back. No matter how many deals someone wants to make those jobs will continue to move out of country.

That says in order to participate you need to shift your expectations. You need to deal in reality. There will always be some manufacturing in the US but the economy is shifting and people need to shift with that.

It's a horrible truth, I understand, but it's the truth.

You can't stop progress. Factories that needed thousands of workers are now automated so as to only need a fraction of those employees to run properly.

Where there were coal mines all through the mountains of WV, you now see those closing because the risks and costs of mining coal for energy are vastly higher than the costs associated with the shale gas industry, and solar/wind/renewables are gaining ground. We aren't going back to coal, and as hard as that is to accept, at some point these people have to realize that and move on.

I know these people. These people are my customers, and they're angry, and I get it. But you can't stop progress. At some point you need to adapt or you're going to get left farther and farther behind.

My family history is full of ridiculously poor railroad workers from tiny mountain towns. When the railroad jobs dried up, they moved, they went to school, they found other ways to support themselves. I don't have too much sympathy for people who see the writing on the wall for decades and refuse to change.

Originally Posted by photon

Looks like Trump's not going to block the AT&T / Time Warner deal after all.

AT&T is reportedly feeling confident about its ability to buy Time Warner after meeting with President-elect Donald Trump's transition team—even though Trump himself vowed to block the merger during his campaign.

"Donald Trump’s transition team has reassured AT&T that its $85.4 billion acquisition of Time Warner will be scrutinized without prejudice," the Financial Times reported yesterday. "After talking with the president-elect’s team, AT&T executives are confident that their deal has a good chance of passing regulatory scrutiny, people informed about the conversation said."

...

As he prepares to shift the Federal Communications Commission from Democratic to Republican control, Trump has also appointed advisors who want to reduce regulatory burdens on telecom companies. That's likely good news for telecom companies that want to increase consolidation and face fewer consumer protection regulations.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2...to-trump-team/

Just what we need, even less telecomm competition in the US market.

[ah123]

No idea if BuzzFeed is trustworthy or not, but if this true, a segment of Trump supporters is going to be disappointed

Amer, who is best known as being part of the comedy trio Allah Made Me Funny, told BuzzFeed News in a phone interview from Scotland he could not believe the situation was real: "I was just walking in and he was just sitting there with his Trump shirt on and I was like, Is this real?"

"And I said – just FYI I'm not getting that ID #### done. You gonna really make my people get ID cards and all this? You know we're not doing this ####," he said in reference to a proposed registry for immigrants from Muslim countries, which has made headlines, even after Donald Trump's 2016 election win.

Amer said that Trump replied: "Ah, come on, man. You can't believe everything you read. Do you really think we're gonna do that?"

https://www.buzzfeed.com/aishagani/t...m7z#.aswdAXW14

[GirlySports]

i agree witty.

is it tough to get back into school? I know you've said that you know people who have gone back to school but are there enough spots? Are people re-testing and they take the best 100 out of 1000? how do they re-test? do they have to take a test to re-test? etc etc....

Where to start with a high school education?

[MissTeeks]

Originally Posted by photon

A pretty great email response from the incoming secretary of defense commenting about being too busy to read.

The problem with being too busy to read is that you learn by experience (or by your men’s experience), i.e. the hard way. By reading, you learn through others’ experiences, generally a better way to do business, especially in our line of work where the consequences of incompetence are so final for young men.

Thanks to my reading, I have never been caught flat-footed by any situation, never at a loss for how any problem has been addressed (successfully or unsuccessfully) before. It doesn’t give me all the answers, but it lights what is often a dark path ahead.

http://www.businessinsider.com/gener...-viral-2016-11

There's a theory going around that Romney is subjecting himself to the public humiliation he's getting because he actually cares about his country and thinks he'll be in a better position to mitigate Trump if necessary as SoS. Or he could just be craven but I'm picking the former heh.

Mattis doesn't sound like the kind of guy that would abide fools.

[wittynickname]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

i agree witty.

is it tough to get back into school? I know you've said that you know people who have gone back to school but are there enough spots? Are people re-testing and they take the best 100 out of 1000? how do they re-test? do they have to take a test to re-test? etc etc....

Where to start with a high school education?

The biggest hurdle to higher education is cost. Democrats had plans for that in their platform, Republicans don't. Yet another example of these same groups voting against their own best interests in hopes of going back to the good old days.

[calf]

Originally Posted by ah123

No idea if BuzzFeed is trustworthy or not,

I'm sure they quoted the guys story accurately, but this part...

CORRECTION
Hillary Clinton was Donald Trump’s opponent in the 2016 US election. An earlier version of this story misstated her role. Dec. 2, 2016, at 10:44 a.m

[photon]

Incidentally Carrier is paying for up to 4 years of schooling for those who are still losing their jobs.