Official WWE/ECW/WCW/TNA talk, or whatever v2

[d_phaneuf]

Roman is the best, I don't think it's close in terms of being an all around guy

The people that just said he wasnt good pre heel turn were just so wrong, booing the booking was different

But his charachter work is so good, the way he yelled at the crowd to acknowledge him, the way he stops and glares at the crowd right before the powerbomb on Bryant.

Hes so so so so good

[d_phaneuf]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Jericho is so egotistical.

Acting like The Elite / Bullet Club were unheard of and didn’t have name recognition to help AEW

The fact that this is so AEW focused is crazy though, unreal this is on WWE programming

I had to rewind when he said

'I went to japan and had to enlighten the whole scene again'

To make sure I heard it right

[SuperMatt18]

It’s ridiculous how highly he thinks of himself.

It’s funny, if you read his early books it feels like he’s become what he hated in some of the old guys in the locker room when he was coming up.

[CaptainCrunch]

Universal Championship -- Roman Reigns (c)(W) vs. Edge vs. Daniel Bryan

There weren't any losers in this matchup. All three are pretty much top of the game guys. However Roman as a heel is far better then Roman as the face trying to think of catchphrases, and as a heel in concert with Paul Heyman it just works so well.


But all three of these workers do the little things in different and distinct ways. Edge's facial work is amazing, when he wants to look unhinged he's completely unhinged. When he's hurt he sells the hurt. Daniel is just great at detailed move execution, and logical story telling. Reigns knows how to play the crowd and make them hate him outright.


In terms of the match it was decently constructed and makes a lot of logical sense, although there was a bit too much interference by Jay at the start. Bt among other things they didn't have to do spectacular sports, instead this match had a distinct old school mat based game.



I also wanted to call attention to the brilliance of Paul Heyman and how he sells matches with the simplest things. When the camera focused on him when Reigns was in the Yes lock, and you saw fear, anguish concern and then he signals Edge in to break it up. When Reigns is sitting on the ring apron, Heyman walks over crosses his arms and looks at Reigns and gives him a little nod.



I loved the use of the chair part in the modified Yes lock. Loved the use of the Conchairto. This was a pretty wild match with a lot of action. Did it have a MOTY feel. To me it was a level below that. But things like the double submission spot, the chair sports, Jay saving the day all made this a really good match.
4.5 out of 5.


Ok, hmmmm, overall this was an ok night of wrestling. I mean they killed the crowd and the Fiend in the opener when they should be pushing crowd energy. The Woman's tag match was awful, and I'm sure that the girls got yelled at in the back over some of the really awful spots and Nia showing once again that she's just not on the level of the other girls. After that they had a bunch of solid but not standout matches with KO Sami contending for the match of the night before the main event. But they were never really able to capture a lot of crowd energy back. I'd state that yesterdays opener was just out right over all better.



So tonight I'd call it a 3 out of 5 generiously. Overall yeah, I'd be comfortable with an overall grade of 3 out of 5.


What came out of this was frankly a lot of wrestlers that are left without a seat. I mean I don't know what to do with Bray, I still expect a Bray vs Fiend matchup somehow with Alexa as Sister Abigail. I don't know what happens to the main event scene this felt like the end of Daniel there, and Edge is going to be a part time guy, who works with Roman? Big E is certainly going to get a monster push and his feud with Crews is going to continue. Do you continue the Owens vs KO? That feels done with.



The WWE needs to sharply rebuild the Woman's division, and maybe we see Io on the way up. They also need to rethink the woman's tag team concept, its just a dud right now. I could watch the Sheamus vs Riddle feud continue as well.


I don't know things just seem to be messy right now.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Jericho is so egotistical.

Acting like The Elite / Bullet Club were unheard of and didn’t have name recognition to help AEW

The fact that this is so AEW focused is crazy though, unreal this is on WWE programming

Jericho has always had a huge ego, that's never changed. But I think that served him when he was younger. But it feels like there was always a filter in WWE, the producers and Vince reigned him in and vetted his ideas and kept him in line. But this interview at times is a bit cringe worthy. You can see Steve rolling his eyes at times.

[SuperMatt18]

I was thinking about it more and this should have been the end of the fiend storyline.

They should have ended the match the exact same way...with the Fiend losing because he was distracted by whatever was going on with Alexa.

Then the lights go out, and when the lights came back on you should have had both Bray and Alexa in their normal clothes and attire passed out in the ring. Have them both look scared and confused.

Just end it. You booked yourself into a bit of a corner and the only way to end it now is to reset them back to their normal selves.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Jericho is so egotistical.

Acting like The Elite / Bullet Club were unheard of and didn’t have name recognition to help AEW

They didn't.

[SuperMatt18]

Also the women’s tag match was the second longest match of the night behind just the main event.

Who the hell thought that was a good idea.

Going from the let down of the Fiend-Orton match, to the a 14 minute match for the women’s tag match (where the fans were clearly behind Nattie and Tamina) drained all energy from the crowd until the main even I think.

Maybe just my opinion too but I didn’t think Ripley looked very good tonight. Offense looked slow and wasn’t convincing. Think that was a weird match because I’m still not sure who was face or heel in that match.

Originally Posted by Blaster86

They didn't.

I don’t know if I agree. There is a reason it’s called All Elite Wrestling.

The Elite had name recognition already and Jericho wasn’t even part of the initial announcement, it was Cody and the Young Bucks.

For me the appeal of AEW was seeing more of these guys like the Young Bucks, Omega, Hangman, etc that I had heard a lot of but hadn’t really seen much of.

Didn’t really have much interest in seeing Jericho wrestle more.

[Muta]

Not sure why they invest so much time and energy into the Wyatt / The Fiend character, and then continue to bury him on these big shows. Considering his loss record over the last couple years, he's lost virtually all credibility at this point. And that sucks, because Wyatt is a terrific talent.

[corporatejay]

I don't even understand what happened at the end of that match. What was that supposed to be?

[SuperMatt18]

I still can’t believe they ended it like that.

They had the fans with the Bliss outfit change and the black goo, the crowd was chanting holy #### expecting something big to happen, a payoff to the Bliss-Fiend relationship.

Then the lights go out and you think it’s coming, what’s this big swerve going to be.

And it’s a big fat ball of nothing. Just brutal booking. They had it right there in the grasp of their hands, and just threw it away.

It’s so weird. They have been doing some interesting long term booking stuff with The Fiend in general out the gate and how he was helping to reveal people’s true colors (Miz, Rollins, Balor, Bryan all becoming more like their past heel selves). And they even do a lot of little things right with Bliss carrying the Jack in the Box in the lead up to tonight, and then opening it at WM tonight. But then they always fall short with the actual match execution with the fiend.

It’s crazy because it really does feel full circle for Bray, very similar to his WM match with Cena where the fans really wanted something to happen and they just threw it away. Now it happens again. Cena and Orton really have both been a big part of holding back Bray’s career.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I don’t know if I agree. There is a reason it’s called All Elite Wrestling.

The Elite had name recognition already and Jericho wasn’t even part of the initial announcement, it was Cody and the Young Bucks.

I am in the same boat. When AEW started, I wanted to see Omega and Hangman. But if you don't think that Chris Jericho immediately made a lot more heads turn and tune in I don't know what to tell you.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

I am in the same boat. When AEW started, I wanted to see Omega and Hangman. But if you don't think that Chris Jericho immediately made a lot more heads turn and tune in I don't know what to tell you.

That’s not really what Jericho said though.

He really made it seem like he was the only draw that people in North America had heard of and that he had to carry the company to start.

[zukes]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Jericho is so egotistical.

Acting like The Elite / Bullet Club were unheard of and didn’t have name recognition to help AEW

The fact that this is so AEW focused is crazy though, unreal this is on WWE programming

That was not what he was saying. He knows that those guys were over with super wrestling fans, but he meant mainstream. I watch WWE every week, but only knew of those guys from reading here and other places. That is what he is talking about.

Also the start and end were AEW focused but the middle was all WWE. I liked the episode and found it very entertaining and interesting, the same with the last one with Orton. Great show, Stone Cold knocking it out of the park.

[zukes]

Though I will agree that Jericho thinks a lot of himself, wow!

[Finger Cookin]

Originally Posted by d_phaneuf

Was kinda hoping jimmy was gonna return and nullify it to take out jey

Whatever they're doing to keep Jimmy off TV, they need to do it to Jey to. Blackmail, lock him up, whatever.

Bray needs to get out of the ring and go be a producer to help other people with their stories. Injecting his creativity into the overall card would be a good move, as it would probably filter out some of the weird excesses of his stuff that just never lands.

[CaptainCrunch]

Its funny, because I was hoping for something interesting to happen with the Fiend last night. I mean I loved the entrance where he healed himself, it made it feel like this was a trap for Orton. In his entrance out of the Jack and the Box, the fans popped huge for him. I mean clearly the fans saw Orton as the heel in this thing.

But the problem with the fiend and Wyatt, is he's so limited in the ring. The WWE really needs to do something with the hot mics, you can hear the wrestlers talking in the ring. You could hear that Bray was utterly gassed very quickly and gasping for breath. He's also extremely limited in the ring, and has a theatrical move set, not a wrestlers move set.

With Alexa, its pretty clear that she's all in on this thing, and I think she's one of the best personality workers in the company.

So getting in to the heads of the writers in WWE, I can only guess at what they're thinking.

Clearly we're seeing the start or end of the Alexa combined character and we're getting a full bore Sister Abigal character, and she's displeased with the Fiend for whatever reason. So here's how we get to the end game.

Tonight on Raw, the Fiend wants answers, but Alexa comes to the ring in her full bore Sister Abigal character with all of the black makeup and so forth. She starts explaining that the fiend was released from hell for one reason, that was to write all the wrongs, and he couldn't get that done, and she was going to send him back to hell tonight. The Fiend of course grunts and growls which totally takes advantage of Bray's mic skills. Then she starts drawing the pentagram symbol in the ring and muttering weirdness and bleeding black. Suddenly we get the funhouse scene and on the screen we see Alexa and Bray and they're terrfied. They talk about being trapped in the funhouse and beg to be let go. Abigal and the Fiend can go back to hell but let us go.

Of course Abigal (alexa laughs and says they're going for the ride). That's when the lights flicker out. When they come back on the Fiend is standing there with Bray behind him. Bray hits the Sister Abigal on the Fiend and then pleads with her to let them go. Then the lights go out and when they come on the ring is empty.

From there we build up to a cinematic match which features Alexa and Bray versus Fiend and Abigal in a battle for their freedom, in a 7 circles of hell match. The idea is they fight through the 7 circles of hell, until they reach the center where they fight in front of Cerebus (played by a CGI Matilda the Bulldog who pees over everything) the special guest referee is played by Pinhead from Hell Raiser. The winners push the losers into Cerebus's mouth for a eternity of torment.

In the end Alexa and Bray beat the Fiend and Abigal and win their freedom. Alexa returns to her normal self. Bray doesn't return to his previous form of the preacher, instead in the ultimate screwjob, he turns up with short hair and new beard and a short sleeved shirt with a tie, playing the role of Irvin R Syster WWE CFO and authority figure.

Its all I got.

[Finger Cookin]

Love using a WM match to set up "intrigue" on Raw.

Becky return on Raw, do we think?

[CaptainCrunch]

I think that they wait and see what Ronda does since she's signed a new deal and frankly the match has to be Ronda pissed because she was never pinned against Becky. I almost think that if this is the case, Ronda has to show up first and in full heel mode.



If theres a woman's debut tonight, Io shows up and wrecks someone.

[Finger Cookin]

Ugh, I hadn't heard Ronda re-signed.