Star Trek General Discussion

[timun]

Originally Posted by Locke

Mariner is actually really interesting now, friends with Jaxa? So how old is Mariner?

Its kind of like they missed an opportunity to have some Grizzled old veteran Lower Decker, like some guy in his 40s or 50s who just could never get past being an Ensign? Hard drinking, hard smoking, missing a leg or something and just BITTER.

Originally Posted by Blaster86

This is what I was talking about with the mind ####. My first thought is it means Mariner is old as bones in a closet. Then you realize that this is taking place briefly after Nemesis. So assuming she graduated from the Academy in her very early 20s, she'd be in her early 30s at the oldest.

Yeah, the timeline is such that the current season of Lower Decks is 2381ish at the earliest. If Mariner was friends with Sito, and graduated around the same time as her in 2369-70 (last season of TNG), and was presumably about 22 years old, Mariner is thereby 32-34ish in Lower Decks. (At the youngest.)

That was always what I assumed from the first season. Mariner is the "grizzled old veteran Lower-Decker". Remember: Kirk was promoted to captain of the Enterprise around the same age. She's only about 12 years younger than Will Riker, who was XO of the Enterprise-D by ~30 and by The Best of Both Worlds three years later had already turned down a couple of command assignments. Mariner is absolutely the "hard-drinking, hard-smoking, bitter" ensign, just emotionally-scarred instead of missing a limb.

"Why does Starfleet keep giving her chances?" It's pretty clear from the first episode of the first season that this is basically end-of-the-road for Mariner, and either she sticks it out on the Cerritos or gets booted out entirely. At this point the only reason she hasn't been drummed out is, as you guys said, nepotism and the fact that deep down she's actually supremely capable, but just keeps self-sabotaging.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by timun

Yeah, the timeline is such that the current season of Lower Decks is 2381ish at the earliest. If Mariner was friends with Sito, and graduated around the same time as her in 2369-70 (last season of TNG), and was presumably about 22 years old, Mariner is thereby 32-34ish in Lower Decks. (At the youngest.)

That was always what I assumed from the first season. Mariner is the "grizzled old veteran Lower-Decker". Remember: Kirk was promoted to captain of the Enterprise around the same age. She's only about 12 years younger than Will Riker, who was XO of the Enterprise-D by ~30 and by The Best of Both Worlds three years later had already turned down a couple of command assignments. Mariner is absolutely the "hard-drinking, hard-smoking, bitter" ensign, just emotionally-scarred instead of missing a limb.

"Why does Starfleet keep giving her chances?" It's pretty clear from the first episode of the first season that this is basically end-of-the-road for Mariner, and either she sticks it out on the Cerritos or gets booted out entirely. At this point the only reason she hasn't been drummed out is, as you guys said, nepotism and the fact that deep down she's actually supremely capable, but just keeps self-sabotaging.

Okay sure, but I want the Old Veteran who cant get promoted (not 'doesnt want to') and is really upset about it.

Like the Starfleet life has done them dirty and they're choked!

And it would be interesting if they parlayed it into something interesting, like if Mariner was a full decade older than her co-workers that could be fun.

[timun]

Starfleet life has done Mariner dirty and she's choked... She is a decade older than Tendi/Boimler/Rutherford.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by timun

Starfleet life has done Mariner dirty and she's choked... She is a decade older than Tendi/Boimler/Rutherford.

Nobody can outdo Ensign Kim on being old and not promoted!

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

Nobody can outdo Ensign Kim on being old and not promoted!

In fairness....Ensign Kim sucks.

But also, as an employer...you gotta have some 'Ensigns.' Not everyone can be a Lieutenant, someone has to mop the Holodeck otherwise theres just too much 'Barclay Backup.'

The Universe needs Ditch Diggers...

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by Locke

In fairness....Ensign Kim sucks.

But also, as an employer...you gotta have some 'Ensigns.' Not everyone can be a Lieutenant, someone has to mop the Holodeck otherwise theres just too much 'Barclay Backup.'

The Universe needs Ditch Diggers...

That's what the version 1 EMH's are for!

Ensign Kim - whoever thought the nerdy Asian kid would be the one held back a year...forever.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

That's what the version 1 EMH's are for!

Ensign Kim - whoever thought the nerdy Asian kid would be the one held back a year...forever.

Are you insinuating that Captain Janeway is a Racist?

Ensign Kim never found his Spirit Animal! Thats the real tragedy here!

[Locke]

Originally Posted by SutterBrother

I think if you're a fan of Lower Decks, you pretty much have to be a hardcore Trekkie. So I don't feel that deep cuts exist? Like you have almost certainly watched all of TOS, TNG, DS9, and probably most of Voyager and Enterprise... multiple times.

Like the moment they mentioned Locarno, my brain went to "It'll be a play on Tom Paris" despite the fact he was a character in 1 episode that was primarily focused on f-ing Wesley from THIRTY YEARS ago.

It's what makes the show so fun. Literally decades of content you have to have in your brain to pick up the stupidest jokes.

Oh - Mariner is still in Starfleet because she's a version of Kirk. Highly capible, but a total loose cannon. When things go sideways and the rules no longer apply is when she really shines.

Also Neppo Baby.

Wil Wheaton is 51 years old.

Let that percolate in your brain for a minute.

[Shazam]

I figure anyone with a pulse and half a brain will become a lieutenant in Starfleet. They'll promote you pretty quickly from ensign rank.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Shazam

I figure anyone with a pulse and half a brain will become a lieutenant in Starfleet. They'll promote you pretty quickly from ensign rank.

Say that to my face! SAY IT!!!

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by Locke

Let that percolate in your brain for a minute.

Just who do you think you are?

[SutterBrother]

Originally Posted by Locke

I agree with most of this, you've gotta be hardcore to get most of it.

"Teach me to dance Dr. Crusher?" From Data's Day? That joke is from 1991!

Granted, I'm guessing you jumped to Locarno sooner than I did, it took my brain a bit on this one, the only reason I even really remembered Locarno is because he actually came up in a conversation not too long ago when some friends and I were discussing the Writer's Strike.

Star Trek: Voyager, pulling Hollywood shenanigans before it was cool!!

Quick and Dirty Coles notes for some of the less hardcore: Locarno = Tom Paris.

Pre-production started on Voyager, they had this all mapped out and then realized that to use the Locarno Character they'd have to pay residuals to the writers who created him each time they used him and they planned on using him a lot.

So they changed his name, dabbled with his backstory (barely) and kept right on truckin'!

If I was one of those writers I'd have been PISSED.

Yup - one of those "what couldda been" stories. Although I guess he would have been written and acted exactly the same way, so maybe no difference except the original writer could have sent his kids to college.

(happy BTW that that writer is now getting SOMETHING all these years later).

The other one was that Ro Laren was originally envisioned as the Bajoran second in command for DS9. Michelle Forbes turned it down. I was always a fan, so would have been nice to have her in that role, although perhaps it was the lack of connection with TNG that ultimately made it so successful.

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

Just who do you think you are?

Her brain is mush too. They should have just have just Warp 10 voyager home and got the EMH to fix them after they got back to Earth.

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

It's actually a bit of a mind #### every time I'm reminded that Lower Decks is happening a year or two after Nemesis. Jaxa died about 8 years before Nemesis which means Mariner has been an officer for about a decade. Leaves me to wonder why Star Fleet keeps giving her chances. A decade of promotions and demotions.

That strategy worked out pretty good for Lt. Pete Mitchell of the U.S. Navy...

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by FlameOn

Her brain is mush too. They should have just have just Warp 10 voyager home and got the EMH to fix them after they got back to Earth.

In the Star Trek universe, they already had suspended animation technology by the 20th century (Khan, those 3 guys in The Neutral Zone episode of TNG, etc.). Janeway should have just put most of the crew into stasis and had the EMH plot a course through the most empty part of space at Warp 10 and go for it. That or put them all into a transporter buffer like Scotty or M'Benga's daughter.

There's the matter of fuel but perhaps a ship can travel indefinitely once the warp bubble is established or maybe the EMH could wake them up every 10 years for a few weeks to find some way to refuel the dilithium chamber and keep going.

"Last time on Star Trek: Voyager - cuts to a shot of the crew sleeping in pods. End credits roll".

[Locke]

Originally Posted by SutterBrother

Yup - one of those "what couldda been" stories. Although I guess he would have been written and acted exactly the same way, so maybe no difference except the original writer could have sent his kids to college.

(happy BTW that that writer is now getting SOMETHING all these years later).

The other one was that Ro Laren was originally envisioned as the Bajoran second in command for DS9. Michelle Forbes turned it down. I was always a fan, so would have been nice to have her in that role, although perhaps it was the lack of connection with TNG that ultimately made it so successful.

Right, and I'm so happy...I never really liked Ro, but holy....Kira was easily one of the best Star Trek characters and Nana Visitor smashed that character out of the park.

Star Trek without Kira? A Star Trek not worth having.

[Blaster86]

Michelle Forbes turning that role down was probably quite sad at the time, but in the end I'd take Kira over 10 Ros.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Locke

Right, and I'm so happy...I never really liked Ro, but holy....Kira was easily one of the best Star Trek characters and Nana Visitor smashed that character out of the park.

Star Trek without Kira? A Star Trek not worth having.

Yup, Kira became such a solid character and Nana did knock it over the park. But I remember her being so terrible for the first half of the first season.

[Locke]

I was just re-watching some Trek...as one does.

Boys...look...I admire your adherence to health and safety regulations on the bridge. I dont know why there are so many electrical explosions...perhaps Khan destroyed the secret ingredient to 'Surge Protectors' as his final act of villainy? I dont know.

But look...you've got safety railings! And thats swell...now, this isnt that hard, what you need to do is head over to RONA or The Home Depot and get some pool noodles, a knife and some duct tape. Cut those noodles up and line your railings with them.

This is just so you dont break your bones every time you fly into them.

This isnt rocket science or complex engineering.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

Michelle Forbes turning that role down was probably quite sad at the time, but in the end I'd take Kira over 10 Ros.

Michelle Forbes is great but I've only ever seen her as the same "b***" character in sci fi (which she did say she wanted to avoid and was one reason she almost turned down BSG).

Nana Visitor is like that bitch where you want to go "aww, that's cute Ms. Bajoran Terrorist, tell me who you bombed today?"