Edmonton is No Good VIII: There's Still Something in the Water!

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Boreal

Gretzky also went to the finals as a 22 year old.
Crosby went to the finals as a 20 year old & won it when he was 21.

In other words before they won they learned how to win.

So far, the only thing McDavid has learned is how to lose.

He learned to score while losing!

[Robbob]

I think after the next season we will see where he is. They will have probably the most cap space they have had in a bit after this season. Which means they will go big game hunting to prove to him they are supporting him. If after next season there is still no progress you will start to hear serious rumblings. McDavid will be starting the back half of the 8 year contract and probably doesn't have the appetite to wait a couple years for a Broberg, Bouchard, Holloway or future picks to pan out. Those 3 alone are a few years away as it is and they aren't a sure thing.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Robbob

I think after the next season we will see where he is. They will have probably the most cap space they have had in a bit after this season. Which means they will go big game hunting to prove to him they are supporting him. If after next season there is still no progress you will start to hear serious rumblings. McDavid will be starting the back half of the 8 year contract and probably doesn't have the appetite to wait a couple years for a Broberg, Bouchard, Holloway or future picks to pan out. Those 3 alone are a few years away as it is and they aren't a sure thing.

I honestly don't even see that as much of an excuse for McDavid. The Oilers have Draisaitl, RNH, Yamamoto, and Kahun in their top 6. That's a lot better than Crosby had to work with at points. If McDavid is demanding 12.5 million, I'm not sure what he expects.

The only move they'll be able to make is buying out Neal and going after a legit #1 d-man. They'd probably lose RNH in the process.

McDavid is obviously a great player, but he seems to lack leadership skills. He doesn't engage his whole team the way previous superstars like Crosby, Ovechkin, or Kane did.

[dirk diggler]

Originally Posted by blankall

I honestly don't even see that as much of an excuse for McDavid. The Oilers have Draisaitl, RNH, Yamamoto, and Kahun in their top 6. That's a lot better than Crosby had to work with at points. If McDavid is demanding 12.5 million, I'm not sure what he expects.

The only move they'll be able to make is buying out Neal and going after a legit #1 d-man. They'd probably lose RNH in the process.

McDavid is obviously a great player, but he seems to lack leadership skills. He doesn't engage his whole team the way previous superstars like Crosby, Ovechkin, or Kane did.

He does say "Let's go", what more can he do.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by blankall

I honestly don't even see that as much of an excuse for McDavid. The Oilers have Draisaitl, RNH, Yamamoto, and Kahun in their top 6. That's a lot better than Crosby had to work with at points. If McDavid is demanding 12.5 million, I'm not sure what he expects.

The only move they'll be able to make is buying out Neal and going after a legit #1 d-man. They'd probably lose RNH in the process.

McDavid is obviously a great player, but he seems to lack leadership skills. He doesn't engage his whole team the way previous superstars like Crosby, Ovechkin, or Kane did.

Crosby also had Lemieux, Gonchar, LeClair and Recchi to learn from. Those are 4 great leaders right there. The Pens never expected him to walk in and take over the team like the Oilers do with pretty much all their top prospects.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Crosby also had Lemieux, Gonchar, LeClair and Recchi to learn from. Those are 4 great leaders right there. The Pens never expected him to walk in and take over the team like the Oilers do with pretty much all their top prospects.

Instead they went straight to making him captain and used the leadership from a totally unfamiliar to the club UFA hire as an assistant to justify their decision. The oilers way!

[blankall]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Crosby also had Lemieux, Gonchar, LeClair and Recchi to learn from. Those are 4 great leaders right there. The Pens never expected him to walk in and take over the team like the Oilers do with pretty much all their top prospects.

I agree. However, if you're going to demand league max, at a certain point you need to be the leader. With the giant cap hit, most teams don't have room to bring in another first line leader, you're that guy.

You see this a lot in other sports too. The new star demands a huge contract, despite not having accomplished anything but individual awards.

As much as you can learn leadership, it's also something you can't entirely learn. I'm not entirely sure McDavid has those qualities, at least not yet.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Instead they went straight to making him captain and used the leadership from a totally unfamiliar to the club UFA hire as an assistant to justify their decision. The oilers way!

They made Ference captain before he even put a Oilers shirt on for the first time.

This is a club that continually does things backwards.

Which is of course hilarious.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Crosby also had Lemieux, Gonchar, LeClair and Recchi to learn from. Those are 4 great leaders right there. The Pens never expected him to walk in and take over the team like the Oilers do with pretty much all their top prospects.

IIRC they’d offered Crosby a C in at mideseason in his second year and he turned it down. He said he wasn’t ready. Then in his third season he took it but only after talking to Recchi and Roberts.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

For everything except elite point production. That tends to fall off before anything else does.

Not saying the players digress - they typically improve in other areas. But point production is a young man's game.

Crosby’s fell somewhat at 27 but he was still way above PPG and then threw out a 100 pt season at 31. Ad he picked up two cups in that period.

[Reggie Dunlop]

What would you have to do to win a Mike Smith lithograph?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

What would you have to do to win a Mike Smith lithograph?

I think your image is sideways.

[GioforPM]

Couldn’t paste right.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Crosby’s fell somewhat at 27 but he was still way above PPG and then threw out a 100 pt season at 31. Ad he picked up two cups in that period.

In fairness to McDavid when comparing to Crosby, Crosby signed a front loaded 12 years deal for a $8.7 mil cap hit. This contract is illegal in today's NHL. If Sid signed 8 years for $88 mil and an AAV of $11 this could have been the difference of him winning those extra 2 cups.

But Sid would have made the playoffs and gone deep in the playoffs and maybe still won those cups. McDavid has made the playoffs once. He's 24 now and most generational talents hit their prime earlier than the rest. 21-22 usually is when it starts for guys like Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr, Sid and so on. IMO McDavid is as good as he can be. Sure he can play better both ends or win more faceoffs but that usually comes at the expense of scoring.

The Oilers have big decisions to make next off season as they have lots of cap space but cap space if only valuable if you spend it wisely and huge cap space is overrated if good players contracts are expiring.

$25 mil to spend but Nuge either walks and gets $8. So it's more it's really $17 mil to spend and you have 13 guys signed (assuming nuge stays)

Yaomoto is an RFA too. Not likely he gets huge money but if he gets the better linemates like he is so far he could get a deal for $3+. This leaves $14 million and 9 guys to sign

Koskinen's play is a huge factor for the Oilers too. If he can't take the #1 role and excel I do not see them being able to sign a cheap back up. Pencil in $2 mil for a back up. $12 mil left need 8 guys.

If you don't have prospects coming in for cheap then you need to sign depth vets that usually come in at $1 - $3 mil a year. Bouchard is the only guy I see on the team next year. Maybe Broberg but he may need a year in the AHL first and I'm not sure you wanna run out a bunch of rookie dmen in the same year when your anchors on d are Klefbom (always hurt), Bear, and Nurse.

I just don't see the Oilers having space to sign someone good again next year even though it appears they might.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I think your image is sideways.

Fixed.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

They made Ference captain before he even put a Oilers shirt on for the first time.

This is a club that continually does things backwards.

Which is of course hilarious.

That one sort of made sense to me at the time. They at least realized that they were entirely bereft of internal leadership... They just didn't come to the correct conclusion that such needs to be developed and instead thought they could transplant it from a winner. Ference and Boston had just been on a cup run.

But yeah, generally they do the opposite of what most people would consider the right thing to do.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

What would you have to do to win a Mike Smith lithograph?

Looks about right, Smith nowhere near his net.

[CroFlames]

Crosby is the most complete player to ever play. Yes, I went there.

McLottery is as one dimensional as them come. No comparison here.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

In fairness to McDavid when comparing to Crosby, Crosby signed a front loaded 12 years deal for a $8.7 mil cap hit. This contract is illegal in today's NHL. If Sid signed 8 years for $88 mil and an AAV of $11 this could have been the difference of him winning those extra 2 cups.

But Sid would have made the playoffs and gone deep in the playoffs and maybe still won those cups. McDavid has made the playoffs once. He's 24 now and most generational talents hit their prime earlier than the rest. 21-22 usually is when it starts for guys like Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr, Sid and so on. IMO McDavid is as good as he can be. Sure he can play better both ends or win more faceoffs but that usually comes at the expense of scoring.

The Oilers have big decisions to make next off season as they have lots of cap space but cap space if only valuable if you spend it wisely and huge cap space is overrated if good players contracts are expiring.

$25 mil to spend but Nuge either walks and gets $8. So it's more it's really $17 mil to spend and you have 13 guys signed (assuming nuge stays)

Yaomoto is an RFA too. Not likely he gets huge money but if he gets the better linemates like he is so far he could get a deal for $3+. This leaves $14 million and 9 guys to sign

Koskinen's play is a huge factor for the Oilers too. If he can't take the #1 role and excel I do not see them being able to sign a cheap back up. Pencil in $2 mil for a back up. $12 mil left need 8 guys.

If you don't have prospects coming in for cheap then you need to sign depth vets that usually come in at $1 - $3 mil a year. Bouchard is the only guy I see on the team next year. Maybe Broberg but he may need a year in the AHL first and I'm not sure you wanna run out a bunch of rookie dmen in the same year when your anchors on d are Klefbom (always hurt), Bear, and Nurse.

I just don't see the Oilers having space to sign someone good again next year even though it appears they might.

The thing is, yeah they're getting a lot of capspace, but they're basically in the same boat they're in now.

Yuo're going to have to overpay for some talent, you have to decide if you want to keep some guys and then they're going to do exactly what they're doing now....which is just fill in the rest with ELCs and cheap washouts.

This strategy has worked wonderfully for them thus far.

[bigpete]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

Fixed.

I was thinking he should be the other way, flopping around on his stomach.