Edmonton is No Good XII: "I Dunno.. it's Just Not Good."

[CroFlames]

Imagine leaving $8 million per on the table so that your manager can build a better team... and they run it back with Skinner and sign Roslovic.

Lmao. He does it to himself the ####ing dope.

[dino7c]

he was never gonna sign a 2x20.5 that would have had major backlash. 2x16 seems reasonable...all that "discount" money was given to Walman for next year. Guys a moron...no wonder NHL players are falling behind other leagues.

[DionTheDman]

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

Nurse and Skinner are my favourite Oilers

That's like having a favourite STD

[curves2000]

Originally Posted by dino7c

he was never gonna sign a 2x20.5 that would have had major backlash. 2x16 seems reasonable...all that "discount" money was given to Walman for next year. Guys a moron...no wonder NHL players are falling behind other leagues.

the NHL is different than other leagues, you usually don't win if your players are making big money. Years ago I came across a stat that is still true today, a player making more than $10mi AAV hasn't won a cup since the lockout era of 2005. Players have won making $9, 10 but not more.

You need elite, young, explosive talent and those impact players need to be cheap compared to other leagues. Massive name, massive market where the sport is #1 like in Canada? Good luck. Canada has enough problems keeping top talent in UFA off-season.

Canadian teams are pretty much forced to overpay, haven't delivered in 4 decades, produce the highest end talent and it's our #1 sport. Imagine if the US couldn't compete at NFL football. Imagine teams like the Patriots, Cowboys, 49'ers not being able to retain top talent.

It's different these days. More elite guys should do the Tom Brady move and take massive discounts and make up for it with winning and historical greatness while having significant influence on team decisions.

[MrMike]

Originally Posted by curves2000

the NHL is different than other leagues, you usually don't win if your players are making big money. Years ago I came across a stat that is still true today, a player making more than $10mi AAV hasn't won a cup since the lockout era of 2005. Players have won making $9, 10 but not more.

You need elite, young, explosive talent and those impact players need to be cheap compared to other leagues. Massive name, massive market where the sport is #1 like in Canada? Good luck. Canada has enough problems keeping top talent in UFA off-season.

Canadian teams are pretty much forced to overpay, haven't delivered in 4 decades, produce the highest end talent and it's our #1 sport. Imagine if the US couldn't compete at NFL football. Imagine teams like the Patriots, Cowboys, 49'ers not being able to retain top talent.

It's different these days. More elite guys should do the Tom Brady move and take massive discounts and make up for it with winning and historical greatness while having significant influence on team decisions.

Bobrovsky changed all of that with his cap hit.

[jroc]

^^^^ Both Bob and Barkov are right at $10M. The stat was 'over' $10M

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by curves2000

the NHL is different than other leagues, you usually don't win if your players are making big money. Years ago I came across a stat that is still true today, a player making more than $10mi AAV hasn't won a cup since the lockout era of 2005. Players have won making $9, 10 but not more.

You need elite, young, explosive talent and those impact players need to be cheap compared to other leagues. Massive name, massive market where the sport is #1 like in Canada? Good luck. Canada has enough problems keeping top talent in UFA off-season.

Canadian teams are pretty much forced to overpay, haven't delivered in 4 decades, produce the highest end talent and it's our #1 sport. Imagine if the US couldn't compete at NFL football. Imagine teams like the Patriots, Cowboys, 49'ers not being able to retain top talent.

It's different these days. More elite guys should do the Tom Brady move and take massive discounts and make up for it with winning and historical greatness while having significant influence on team decisions.

I get it, from a players point of view they are dumb though...the top guys make billionare owners far more money than they get back so their team can stay under the owner/league mandated salary cap and win a prize that costs the league nothing to hand out.

Quite the racket honestly. Top players should be trying to push the salary up, I mean somebody is gonna win the cup with an over 10 hit sooner rather than later. Probably this season. McDavid is too dumb though...Nurse gets 9.5 but he gets 12.5 lol

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by curves2000

the NHL is different than other leagues, you usually don't win if your players are making big money. Years ago I came across a stat that is still true today, a player making more than $10mi AAV hasn't won a cup since the lockout era of 2005. Players have won making $9, 10 but not more.

You need elite, young, explosive talent and those impact players need to be cheap compared to other leagues. Massive name, massive market where the sport is #1 like in Canada? Good luck. Canada has enough problems keeping top talent in UFA off-season.

Canadian teams are pretty much forced to overpay, haven't delivered in 4 decades, produce the highest end talent and it's our #1 sport. Imagine if the US couldn't compete at NFL football. Imagine teams like the Patriots, Cowboys, 49'ers not being able to retain top talent.

It's different these days. More elite guys should do the Tom Brady move and take massive discounts and make up for it with winning and historical greatness while having significant influence on team decisions.

What the hell are you on about? You're talking about stats related to "cap hits under and over $10mil AAV" in regards to winning championships over multiple decades while the economic landscape evolves each year to match league revenue and inflation?? Do you even have a basic understanding of the salary cap and it's rise over the years? Like do you understand there were star players making $7mil in your golden years that won cups that would carry a cap hit of $17-$19mil AAV present day due to the current salary cap?

Like what kind of dumb theory is that when the cap goes up year after year and is going up at a crazy rate in the next few years? That's an absurd, silly, uneducated take on what it takes to win a Stanley Cup. If you have zero understanding of what a player's cap hit is as a percentage of the cap in that given year then what are you even doing saying what you're saying?

What are you, Lou Lamoriello trying to manage the cap in present day? "And I declared that there shall be NO PLAYER WITH A CAP HIT OVER $10MIL AAV CAP HIT!!! IT WORKED 15 years ago!!!!

*While every single star player on every team signs for over $10mil AAV, present day.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by dino7c

I get it, from a players point of view they are dumb though...the top guys make billionare owners far more money than they get back so their team can stay under the owner/league mandated salary cap and win a prize that costs the league nothing to hand out.

Quite the racket honestly. Top players should be trying to push the salary up, I mean somebody is gonna win the cup with an over 10 hit sooner rather than later. Probably this season. McDavid is too dumb though...Nurse gets 9.5 but he gets 12.5 lol

But again, you guys aren't understanding the economics of the salary cap, at all. Jarome Iginla was close to a Kaprisov contract in his day in the mid 2000's (even slightly more, maybe?). Do you not see that a $39mil salary cap, a $70mil salary cap and a $100 mil salary cap are going to produce much different AAV on player contracts? I feel I'm taking crazy pills here.

We can all see and agree that star players are all going to be over $10mil AAV for the most part, going forward and therefore the statement that someones, old school claim of teams won't win cups with a player making over $10mil AAV is an absurd, absolutely goofball statement in today's NHL, as it's basically saying "no NHL shall win a cup while paying ANY STAR player what they're worth??

[jroc]

Jayswin

He’s just trying to say that $14M +$12.5M + $10.5M =no championship (lol bonus points for Nurse)

In other words E = NG

Lighten up dude.

[jayswin]

Oh, I actually forgot this was the "EDMONTON is NO GOOD" thread when responding as I opened a bunch quickly. Different vibe in here, I get it. Yes, Edmonton is no good and everything they do is stupid and their cap hits are dumb they won't win anything cause they suck.

[jroc]

That’s better!

[curves2000]

Originally Posted by jayswin

What the hell are you on about? You're talking about stats related to "cap hits under and over $10mil AAV" in regards to winning championships over multiple decades while the economic landscape evolves each year to match league revenue and inflation?? Do you even have a basic understanding of the salary cap and it's rise over the years? Like do you understand there were star players making $7mil in your golden years that won cups that would carry a cap hit of $17-$19mil AAV present day due to the current salary cap?

Like what kind of dumb theory is that when the cap goes up year after year and is going up at a crazy rate in the next few years? That's an absurd, silly, uneducated take on what it takes to win a Stanley Cup. If you have zero understanding of what a player's cap hit is as a percentage of the cap in that given year then what are you even doing saying what you're saying?

What are you, Lou Lamoriello trying to manage the cap in present day? "And I declared that there shall be NO PLAYER WITH A CAP HIT OVER $10MIL AAV CAP HIT!!! IT WORKED 15 years ago!!!!

*While every single star player on every team signs for over $10mil AAV, present day.

Re-read what I said and process it, it was brought up recently by Elliot Friedman on his podcast. No NHL player has won a cup with an AAV over $10 million. It's not that the individual players are not worth it on the open market or their value isn't there it's that high cap hits in a cap world don't allow you the same flexibility to build your roster. Just because you pay players more money, doesn't equal more winning or production.

Since this is an Oilers thread. There were seasons when Mcdavid's production was higher when he was making $900k than when he was making $12.5 million. Just because the Oilers paid him 1300% more money doesn't mean he can produce or be 1300% better overall . It also doesn't mean he isn't worth the $12.5 mil as his production, value and revenue earnings for his team.

It's that asset/cap allocation that needs to be spot on in the NHL. Some how the Oilers have managed to be in cap hell for years yet have incredible value contracts from a production standpoint. Mcdavid, Leon, Hyman, RNH. Even their goaltending has won a lot of games and playoff rounds for the $3.5 combined AAV.

To bring it back to the Flames, outside of the lucky 04 season, the farthest they have gone in 36 years is in 14/15 when they won a game in the 2nd round. Gio, Johnny and Monny were making a combined $6mil AAV. Move forward a few years and they were making $20 mil AAV ($19.9 actually) Just because everybody is being paid fairly and their worth doesn't mean it allows for proper team building for a winner in the NHL.

Other sports are different in a lot of ways. The NHL requires young, elite, explosive talent on team friendly contracts in order to win a cup and multiple championships.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by jayswin

But again, you guys aren't understanding the economics of the salary cap, at all. Jarome Iginla was close to a Kaprisov contract in his day in the mid 2000's (even slightly more, maybe?). Do you not see that a $39mil salary cap, a $70mil salary cap and a $100 mil salary cap are going to produce much different AAV on player contracts? I feel I'm taking crazy pills here.

We can all see and agree that star players are all going to be over $10mil AAV for the most part, going forward and therefore the statement that someones, old school claim of teams won't win cups with a player making over $10mil AAV is an absurd, absolutely goofball statement in today's NHL, as it's basically saying "no NHL shall win a cup while paying ANY STAR player what they're worth??

Why did you quote me? I literally said that someone would win the cup with the player over 10M sooner rather than later and probably this season lol. (Colorado IMO)

My entire comment was about how stupid McDavid is for not taking the money

McDavid is no good

[GioforPM]

It is fair to say that a lot of teams win their cups and then sign the stars that got them there to big contracts. For a long time teams were making hay off of RFA aged stars on lower cap hits. Then RFAs started making UFA like demands.

[dino7c]

4 games 2 wins, 10 goals with 2 into an EN against all non playoff teams from last season and with a day+ between each game

[CaptainCrunch]

So they've scored 2 empty netters, and 3 pp goals, so they've got 5 pure 5v5 goals with a goalie in net in 4 games. That's really unimpressive.


Of greater concern is that Isaac Howard and Matt Savoie are a combined no goals and no assists and doing next to nothing.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by dino7c

4 games 2 wins, 10 goals with 2 into an EN against all non playoff teams from last season and with a day+ between each game

Plus two 3rd period blown leads for the losses also against non playoff teams.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by dino7c

I get it, from a players point of view they are dumb though...the top guys make billionare owners far more money than they get back so their team can stay under the owner/league mandated salary cap and win a prize that costs the league nothing to hand out.

Quite the racket honestly. Top players should be trying to push the salary up, I mean somebody is gonna win the cup with an over 10 hit sooner rather than later. Probably this season. McDavid is too dumb though...Nurse gets 9.5 but he gets 12.5 lol

This is all that happens when stars leave money on the table. Middle tier guys make millions and are way over paid.

They could have just traded for a different Walman who makes half the money he does. Have the entire year to decide on his contract too. You should never re-sign non-star players a year early without a discount.

[Macho0978]

Seems like every day you see the Edmonton media pumping Howard and Savoie.

4 games 0 points for both and Howard is under 10 mins a game. Savoie is a 12. How are they not getting more time with Hyman hurt and the depth players they have in Edmonton all are prototypical 3rd/4th liners.