You Know What Really Grinds My Gears? Now with 3x more gears...

[Erick Estrada]

What is it with pedestrians that drag their ass through busy intersections? This morning I (on the other side of the road waiting to walk across the other direction) watched a group of girls take the entire light to cross the street from green to red. There was a semi-truck at the front of the turning lane and several vehicles behind and the semi-truck was forced to turn on red because the light turned when the pedestrians were at the end of the intersection. He honked his horn at them while driving through and the funny thing is that they didn't even notice or care. I see this a lot in the city where pedestrians have zero urgency when crossing roads and I get that some drivers are dicks and I've had some close calls crossing intersections with cars but it's like they have contempt for traffic or something.

[Table 5]

The ones that make me shake my head are the people who just blindly walk into an intersection without even bothering to look sideways to see if anything is coming. Often with head down looking at their phone.

I get pedestrians have the right of way in these instances, but dammit people, have some self-preservation instincts.

[btimbit]

As the kids say nowadays, these are people that in their own minds are the main characters. The people around them don't matter. Whether driving, walking, biking, doesn't matter. Only they matter

I hate selfish people

[CarlLester]

Originally Posted by Table 5

The ones that make me shake my head are the people who just blindly walk into an intersection without even bothering to look sideways to see if anything is coming. Often with head down looking at their phone.

I get pedestrians have the right of way in these instances, but dammit people, have some self-preservation instincts.

I almost flattened a girl a couple of weeks ago here:

https://www.google.ca/maps/@50.95730...7i16384!8i8192

She walked down the hill right into the lane. Airpods in and staring at her phone. Even after I swerved left to avoid her, she still didn't look up!

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by CarlLester

I almost flattened a girl a couple of weeks ago here:

https://www.google.ca/maps/@50.95730...7i16384!8i8192

She walked down the hill right into the lane. Airpods in and staring at her phone. Even after I swerved left to avoid her, she still didn't look up!

Nightly occurance downtown for me. Usually they keep staring at their phone, but often they'll look up at me like I'm some kind of impatient ####### when I'm sitting there lights and sirens waiting for karen and her headphones to get the #### off the road

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by btimbit

Nightly occurance downtown for me. Usually they keep staring at their phone, but often they'll look up at me like I'm some kind of impatient ####### when I'm sitting there lights and sirens waiting for karen and her headphones to get the #### off the road

Yeah it seems this type of behaviour is pretty common from young people crossing roads. There is a bus stop on my way to work in the morning that I seem to hit pretty consistently and this one girl will get out of the bus and just walk late through the crosswalk with her head buried into her phone with people turning in and either she's got a lot of faith in the attention of drivers or whatever is on her phone is extremely important and worth risking harm. I can say from experience as a pedestrian that you should be very defensive when walking through as a lot of drivers aren't paying attention to crosswalks especially when it's dark.

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by Table 5

The ones that make me shake my head are the people who just blindly walk into an intersection without even bothering to look sideways to see if anything is coming. Often with head down looking at their phone.

I get pedestrians have the right of way in these instances, but dammit people, have some self-preservation instincts.

I watched a girl almost get flattened because she was riding her bike down the hill and just blasted through the intersection when the hand was flashing. She was probably late elementary or early junior high school age?

My thoughts were:

1. I haven't seen a scene like this since I was a kid.
2. That looks fun.
3. Poor self preservation instincts on that kid.
4. Wait, I think I did this when I was a kid, how can I call her stupid if I was just as stupid when I was a kid?
5. She looks like she's having fun. I miss those days where life lacked responsibilities.

Nowadays, I play on the playground with my kids... those damn monkey bars. I used to do those with ease. Now I worry I might pull something out of its socket if I try anything more than hanging off of them. No wonder so many parents live vicariously through their kids. Some parents are likely innocently happy to be reminded of simpler time through their kids... until those kids remind them that live is even more complex with their existence.

Seriously though, kids are great. Don't run them over.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

What is it with pedestrians that drag their ass through busy intersections? This morning I (on the other side of the road waiting to walk across the other direction) watched a group of girls take the entire light to cross the street from green to red. There was a semi-truck at the front of the turning lane and several vehicles behind and the semi-truck was forced to turn on red because the light turned when the pedestrians were at the end of the intersection. He honked his horn at them while driving through and the funny thing is that they didn't even notice or care. I see this a lot in the city where pedestrians have zero urgency when crossing roads and I get that some drivers are dicks and I've had some close calls crossing intersections with cars but it's like they have contempt for traffic or something.

That’s a design issue. If a protected non-pedestrian turning phase is required then one should be put in. If the volumes of pedestrians/traffic don’t dictate it then waiting is reasonable.

[Sainters7]

Originally Posted by btimbit

Nightly occurance downtown for me. Usually they keep staring at their phone, but often they'll look up at me like I'm some kind of impatient ####### when I'm sitting there lights and sirens waiting for karen and her headphones to get the #### off the road

Downtown is so bad for this. Also, once you get in the apartment building areas, they seem to treat every street like it's a crosswalk, and just assume they have the right of way every time. They'll literally just dart out right in front of you, even when they see you. No stop sign or crosswalk or anything, doesn't matter.

So entitled too, I was frustrated with one of em for doing that so I went once he safely passed me but hadn't quite 100% finished crossing yet and he started losing it on me. You're jaywalking bro, and you saw me coming before you even started crossing and just jumped out in front of me, get outta here...

Driving downtown just sucks in general, whether it's the core for business professionals, or the surrounding apartment areas for residents. And it's slowwww

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by GGG

That’s a design issue. If a protected non-pedestrian turning phase is required then one should be put in. If the volumes of pedestrians/traffic don’t dictate it then waiting is reasonable.

I don't think so. They walked really, really slow chatting amongst themselves like they were oblivious to their surroundings.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by Sainters7

Downtown is so bad for this. Also, once you get in the apartment building areas, they seem to treat every street like it's a crosswalk, and just assume they have the right of way every time. They'll literally just dart out right in front of you, even when they see you. No stop sign or crosswalk or anything, doesn't matter.

So entitled too, I was frustrated with one of em for doing that so I went once he safely passed me but hadn't quite 100% finished crossing yet and he started losing it on me. You're jaywalking bro, and you saw me coming before you even started crossing and just jumped out in front of me, get outta here...

Driving downtown just sucks in general, whether it's the core for business professionals, or the surrounding apartment areas for residents. And it's slowwww

Not sure if you are talking about pedestrians crossing at intersections or mid-block (or maybe both), but:

Crosswalks can be marked or unmarked.

Marked Crosswalk: Any part of a roadway that is distinctly marked by signs, lines, or any other marking on the road for pedestrian crossing.
Unmarked Crosswalk: The part of a roadway that connects 2 sidewalks, curbs, or edges of a road at an intersection where that roadway crosses another—think of an invisible line drawn corner to corner straight across the road. Unmarked crosswalks exist at all intersections unless a sign states otherwise.
...
Pedestrians have the right of way in a crosswalk unless a peace officer or traffic control device directs otherwise. This means that even if the crosswalk is unmarked, vehicles must stop and yield to pedestrians.

SOURCE: https://www.alberta.ca/pedestrian-sa...%20pedestrians.

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by GGG

That’s a design issue. If a protected non-pedestrian turning phase is required then one should be put in. If the volumes of pedestrians/traffic don’t dictate it then waiting is reasonable.

I've wondered if moving the pedestrian lines about 10-20 feet in some instances could make sense. That way vehicles trying to turn don't have to wait on both pedestrian and vehicle gaps when making a turn. They can separate the two and they can have a spot for one car length or two that they can wait as the pedestrians continue to cross. The drawback of this is if you're making a right turn, you can't see the pedestrians as they're further away from the corner curb and people who would cluelessly stop right on top of it.

This would help a ton in down town situations though. Situations where a vehicle waiting to turn cannot because a pedestrian does a late meander onto the crosswalk.

Originally Posted by Sainters7

Downtown is so bad for this. Also, once you get in the apartment building areas, they seem to treat every street like it's a crosswalk, and just assume they have the right of way every time. They'll literally just dart out right in front of you, even when they see you. No stop sign or crosswalk or anything, doesn't matter.

So entitled too, I was frustrated with one of em for doing that so I went once he safely passed me but hadn't quite 100% finished crossing yet and he started losing it on me. You're jaywalking bro, and you saw me coming before you even started crossing and just jumped out in front of me, get outta here...

Driving downtown just sucks in general, whether it's the core for business professionals, or the surrounding apartment areas for residents. And it's slowwww

Pedestrian crossing only periods make sense for most of down town. If pedestrians dislike that because they're too dumb to be conscientious of others, there's always the +15.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I don't think so. They walked really, really slow chatting amongst themselves like they were oblivious to their surroundings.

I think this depends on perspective of how space should be used. If one’s assumes that all space is pedestrian space and the road is actually crossing the pedestrian realm rather than the pedestrian crossing the hallowed space of the car then the behaviour and the design makes perfect sense.

Unless you are Jay-waking no need to hustle.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by DoubleF

I've wondered if moving the pedestrian lines about 10-20 feet in some instances could make sense. That way vehicles trying to turn don't have to wait on both pedestrian and vehicle gaps when making a turn. They can separate the two and they can have a spot for one car length or two that they can wait as the pedestrians continue to cross. The drawback of this is if you're making a right turn, you can't see the pedestrians as they're further away from the corner curb and people who would cluelessly stop right on top of it.

This would help a ton in down town situations though. Situations where a vehicle waiting to turn cannot because a pedestrian does a late meander onto the crosswalk.

I think that leads to pedestrians getting hit by accelerating right turning traffic.
Downtown and 6th Abe has many protected phases where there walk hasn’t turned to allow for right turns essentially splitting the green phase into a right turning movement and and a pedestrian movement.

Where there is sufficient pedestrian activity to warrant intervention this seems reasonable otherwise the car can wait.

[Fuzz]

It would only work on the downstream leg of a one way street. Otherwise you have traffic stopped where the crossing would be. And even then, streets backup, so you'd have crossings where vehicles are stopped, but also slowly moving forward across multiple lanes.

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by GGG

I think that leads to pedestrians getting hit by accelerating right turning traffic.
Downtown and 6th Abe has many protected phases where there walk hasn’t turned to allow for right turns essentially splitting the green phase into a right turning movement and and a pedestrian movement.

Where there is sufficient pedestrian activity to warrant intervention this seems reasonable otherwise the car can wait.

Only if the driver doesn't notice there is a pedestrian in a pushed back crossing, but I get your point. Idea wise though, the gap is supposed to be long enough for 1-2 passenger vehicles, it'd also allow for a vehicle to pull into that spot and wait for the pedestrian to complete crossing and then continue through rather than having to wait on a simultaneous vehicle and pedestrian gap. This might be beneficial for instance in a situation where there's a turn signal at a controlled intersection, but I agree it's a concept that isn't without issue.

Originally Posted by Fuzz

It would only work on the downstream leg of a one way street. Otherwise you have traffic stopped where the crossing would be. And even then, streets backup, so you'd have crossings where vehicles are stopped, but also slowly moving forward across multiple lanes.

? why would it require a one way street? The concept shouldn't be too different to how things are now. The biggest difference might be that if you turn onto another street, you can't gun it as fast as you have to pull up closer to see if there's anyone in the crosswalk, but this shouldn't be a major thing because many pedestrians love jaywalking from this exact spot I'm proposing, towards the cross walk anyways. It would also create a minor space buffer in the instances that someone has the sun in their eyes at an angle and are rushing to make the traffic gap.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by DoubleF

Only if the driver doesn't notice there is a pedestrian in a pushed back crossing, but I get your point. Idea wise though, the gap is supposed to be long enough for 1-2 passenger vehicles, it'd also allow for a vehicle to pull into that spot and wait for the pedestrian to complete crossing and then continue through rather than having to wait on a simultaneous vehicle and pedestrian gap. This might be beneficial for instance in a situation where there's a turn signal at a controlled intersection, but I agree it's a concept that isn't without issue.

? why would it require a one way street? The concept shouldn't be too different to how things are now. The biggest difference might be that if you turn onto another street, you can't gun it as fast as you have to pull up closer to see if there's anyone in the crosswalk, but this shouldn't be a major thing because many pedestrians love jaywalking from this exact spot I'm proposing, towards the cross walk anyways. It would also create a minor space buffer in the instances that someone has the sun in their eyes at an angle and are rushing to make the traffic gap.

Maybe I'm reading what you are saying wrong, but if it was something like this:

https://goo.gl/maps/KF5VRQy4yLu7H8Y68

And you move the crosswalk back, say, to where the white truck is, do you have two stop lines? One at the intersection, and one to keep the crosswalk clear? Then you also have people crossing from the far side between vehicles, then stepping into a traffic lane with no visibility.

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Maybe I'm reading what you are saying wrong, but if it was something like this:

https://goo.gl/maps/KF5VRQy4yLu7H8Y68

And you move the crosswalk back, say, to where the white truck is, do you have two stop lines? One at the intersection, and one to keep the crosswalk clear? Then you also have people crossing from the far side between vehicles, then stepping into a traffic lane with no visibility.

I'd assume similar rules to a train track. You stop before and after it, but not on it. It'd be no different to the big X slots on the roads. This is also somewhat similar to the cross walk set up on the Banff main strip (minus the turns). The white truck is a little far though, but 1-1.5 car lengths was what I was basically envisioning to include 1 of most, but not necessarily all oversized delivery vehicles/Cube vans/u-Hauls etc. I'm considering that most times, vehicles are in the cross walk and get stuck on it anyways as they roll forward to get a good look at the traffic and then have to wait for a gap.

But I get it. In theory, the vehicles might have to treat the crosswalk as a weird yield instead of a full stop. This is more confusing at first, but probably better in the long run once people get used to it. I mean, cars here stop for jaywalkers all the time or change lanes to blast past a vehicle stopped at a cross walk. I think people already technically know how to use these.

The first vehicles at the light don't worry about what is going on behind them pedestrian wise.

It would also mean that if that white van is turning left, they could separately turn during gaps of oncoming traffic and wait on pedestrians afterwards. No more instances where only a single vehicle could turn because of combinations of vehicle gaps and pedestrians. In theory at least two can go (1 in gap, 1 in intersection). This is because they'd be waiting on pedestrians further down, and not to clear the crosswalk before turning.

The black Audi could be turning just ahead of the traffic about to go through the green as the pedestrians are behind that vehicle.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Not sure if you are talking about pedestrians crossing at intersections or mid-block (or maybe both), but:

SOURCE: https://www.alberta.ca/pedestrian-sa...%20pedestrians.

Note that the above only applies where there is a sidewalk on either side of the intersection. The crosswalk itself (the bit crossing the road) does not need to have any markings, but a sidewalk must be present on either side of the street for it to be considered an 'unmarked' crosswalk.

ALBERTA REGULATION 304/2002
Traffic Safety Act
USE OF HIGHWAY AND RULES OF THE ROAD REGULATION
https://www.canlii.org/en/ab/laws/re...-304-2002.html
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1(1)(d) “crosswalk” means
(i) that part of a roadway at an intersection included within the connection of the lateral line of the sidewalks on opposite sides of the highway measured from the curbs or, in the absence of curbs, from the edges of the roadway, or
(ii) any part of a roadway at an intersection or elsewhere distinctly indicated for pedestrian crossing by signs or by lines or by other markings on the road surface;
-------
and
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Yielding to pedestrians
41(1) A person driving a vehicle shall yield the right of way to a pedestrian crossing the roadway within a crosswalk.
(2) Where a vehicle is stopped at a crosswalk to permit a pedestrian to cross the roadway, a person driving any other vehicle that is approaching the stopped vehicle from the rear shall not overtake and pass the stopped vehicle.
(3) At any place on a roadway other than at a crosswalk, a person driving a vehicle has the right of way over pedestrians unless otherwise directed by a peace officer or a traffic control device.
(4) Nothing in subsection (3) relieves a person driving a vehicle from the duty of exercising due care for the safety of pedestrians.
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Pedestrians crossing roadway
91(1) A pedestrian who is crossing a roadway
(a) shall cross as quickly as is reasonable, and
(b) shall not stop or loiter while crossing the highway or otherwise impede the free movement of vehicles on the highway.
(2) A pedestrian shall not proceed onto a roadway or proceed along a roadway into the path of any vehicle that is so close that it is impracticable for the driver of the vehicle to yield the right of way.
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Yielding by pedestrians
92 A pedestrian who is crossing a roadway at any point other than within a crosswalk shall yield the right of way to vehicles on the roadway.
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Pedestrians’ right of way
93(1) At a place where there is a crosswalk, a pedestrian has, unless otherwise directed by a peace officer or a traffic control device, the right of way over vehicles for the purpose of crossing the roadway within the crosswalk.
(2) Notwithstanding subsection (1), nothing in this section relieves a pedestrian from the duty of exercising due care for the pedestrian’s own safety.

[Fuzz]

^
Is it both sides? I always assumed this was a legal crossing(crossing 10th st)

https://goo.gl/maps/QvLumfE1bKyo8doB8