Craig's List 2014 Prospects

[moon]

Originally Posted by Cheerio

Maybe this is an unpopular opinion but I would rather trade our pick for Evander Kane than draft Nick Ritchie

I would rather pick whoever is left out of the top 5, but I guess if those are the only two options I may go with the guy who is proven.

Kane seems to have too many issues/not enough talent and is closer to FA to make much sense for the Flames. But perhaps they can then flip him to someone else for a good return.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Screw Nylander and Ehlers, they aren't what we need.

What do we need? Size and grit?

When I look at the Flames, what I see missing is skill. It would be nice if that skill also came in a big package, but when you look around the league and see sub 6' players like Crosby, Giroux, Duchene, etc., be among the league leaders in scoring, I see that as something the Flames truly lack. Most elite players in the league are not "power forwards".

[moon]

What we don't need are guys who can't bring that skill to the NHL.

There are big questions about Nylander and Ehlers ability to have the same success they have now at the NHL if they can even end up playing at that level.

They have just as many, if not more questions, about their future as a guy like Ritchie and not a whole lot of evidence that they have any more skill than him.

Nylander and Ehlers haven't shown any indication that they are close to the same skill level as those mentioned.

[Caged Great]

Don't think that I am advocating for the little players, my draft order is Reinhart-Bennett-Ekblad-Dal Colle-Draisaitl (The last two are interchangeable) and we should be picking 5th, so one of those guys will be there.

Once moving past those guys, if for some reason they are all gone when we pick, then I would go with who ever has the best skill level regardless of size, and the next two guys on that list are Ehlers and Nylander.

I too would rather trade the pick than pick Ritchie and I hate the idea of trading top 3 round picks for vets in a rebuild. It would serve us better as we would definitely have an NHL player in the deal, instead of the ??? surrounding Ritchie.

Honestly, if I didn't have questions about Ritchie's game, I would be advocating him if we were picking 5th, because I'd rather have size than not if all things are equal.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by moon

What we don't need are guys who can't bring that skill to the NHL.

There are big questions about Nylander and Ehlers ability to have the same success they have now at the NHL if they can even end up playing at that level.

They have just as many, if not more questions, about their future as a guy like Ritchie and not a whole lot of evidence that they have any more skill than him.

Nylander and Ehlers haven't shown any indication that they are close to the same skill level as those mentioned.

I'm not saying Ehlers is the next Giroux or Nylander is the next Backstrom, but would Giroux have been drafted 22nd overall if scouts thought he had his current upside?

Players like Ritchie and Virtanen, from what I have seen, even if they reach their potential, will not be more than 50-60 points players.

I guess I just desire more from my top 5 picks.

[moon]

I don't see any reason to think Nylander or Ehlers would be any more than that themselves.

I expect more out of a top 5 pick than guys with big questions about the ability to play at the NHL level.

Benn, Jumbo Joe, Getzlaf, AO are all guys that are big guys who seem fine scoring over 50-60 points. I doubt Ritchie reaches that but not sure why his potential couldn't be a 70+ point guy at least.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by moon

I don't see any reason to think Nylander or Ehlers would be any more than that themselves.

I expect more out of a top 5 pick than guys with big questions about the ability to play at the NHL level.

Benn, Jumbo Joe, Getzlaf, AO are all guys that are big guys who seem fine scoring over 50-60 points. I doubt Ritchie reaches that but not sure why his potential couldn't be a 70+ point guy at least.

I did not say "expect", I said if they reach their potential.

You expect those totals from Nylander and Ehler. Their ceiling is much higher.

Ritchie does not play a similar game to any of the players you listed at all.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

What do we need? Size and grit?

When I look at the Flames, what I see missing is skill. It would be nice if that skill also came in a big package, but when you look around the league and see sub 6' players like Crosby, Giroux, Duchene, etc., be among the league leaders in scoring, I see that as something the Flames truly lack. Most elite players in the league are not "power forwards".

Yeah, we have enough size and grit to compete with the Blues, Kings, Sharks and Bruins. Time for us to get smaller.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Yeah, we have enough size and grit to compete with the Blues, Kings, Sharks and Bruins. Time for us to get smaller.

I don't want us to get smaller, but it's sure as hell a lot tougher to get a Claude Giroux on your team than it is to get a Milan Lucic.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I did not say "expect", I said if they reach their potential.

You expect those totals from Nylander and Ehler. Their ceiling is much higher.

Ritchie does not play a similar game to any of the players you listed at all.

Point totals aren't the end all and be all but that's all Nylander and Ehler are probably going to give you.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I did not say "expect", I said if they reach their potential.

You expect those totals from Nylander and Ehler. Their ceiling is much higher.

Ritchie does not play a similar game to any of the players you listed at all.

Nylander and Ehlers doesn't play a similar game to Giroux, Crosby or Backstrom. Other than they all pass the puck and try to score.

I don't expect those totals from Nylander or Ehlers at all. That would be pretty decent production if they turned into that and they would be ranked much higher.

Their ceiling is not any higher than Ritchie at all in my view.

[irrevocable]

Originally Posted by Cheerio

Maybe this is an unpopular opinion but I would rather trade our pick for Evander Kane than draft Nick Ritchie

5th overall for Kane? You goddamn right! We can dream but I don't think Winnipeg deals with us.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I don't want us to get smaller, but it's sure as hell a lot tougher to get a Claude Giroux on your team than it is to get a Milan Lucic.

Sure but we aren't talking about getting a Claude Giroux on the team here.

Nylander and Ehlers do not project to that level at all.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Point totals aren't the end all and be all but that's all Nylander and Ehler are probably going to give you.

Again, yeah, that's probably all they are going to give you.

Ritchie is probably going to be a 20-30 point bottom 6er, so I'll take the players who will put up more points.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I don't want us to get smaller, but it's sure as hell a lot tougher to get a Claude Giroux on your team than it is to get a Milan Lucic.

Well you're advocating taking players that will get us smaller.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Again, yeah, that's probably all they are going to give you.

Ritchie is probably going to be a 20-30 point bottom 6er, so I'll take the players who will put up more points.

Probably?

And yet pro scouts have him ranked in the top 10?

Ehlers and Nylander are probably going to be ECHL 4th liners, I'll take the NHLer.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by moon

Nylander and Ehlers doesn't play a similar game to Giroux, Crosby or Backstrom. Other than they all pass the puck and try to score.

I don't expect those totals from Nylander or Ehlers at all. That would be pretty decent production if they turned into that and they would be ranked much higher.

Their ceiling is not any higher than Ritchie at all in my view.

You seem to be stuck on the idea that I'm using Giroux as a comparable because they play similar games. I'm not and they don't.

I'm saying that Claude Giroux is more valuable than any "power forward" in the NHL and most of the elite players in this league are closer to 5'11" than 6'4".

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Well you're advocating taking players that will get us smaller.

I'm advocating taking the BPA and not based on organizational need (even then, he's a LW, which the organization has a ton of).

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by moon

Probably?

And yet pro scouts have him ranked in the top 10?

Ehlers and Nylander are probably going to be ECHL 4th liners, I'll take the NHLer.

If neither group of players is expected to make an impact in the NHL, I think it's unbelievably foolish to pick the group with the lower upside.

I mean, if you guys want to build your team with top 5 picked bottom 6ers, go ahead. I think the true elite talent in this league is found, on average, from a different kind of prospect.

[irrevocable]

Originally Posted by moon

Probably?

And yet pro scouts have him ranked in the top 10?

Ehlers and Nylander are probably going to be ECHL 4th liners, I'll take the NHLer.

I'll bet you Ehlers has a .65 point production in the NHL by 2016.