Israel declares war on Hamas - Page 154 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

WCW Nitro · 10-31-2023, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by activeStick

UN Human Rights Chief resigns over "textbook case of genocide" in Palestine. Depressing letter to read.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1719453324284452944

What would the UN Human Rights Chief know, we have to believe Israel only.

Manhattanboy · 10-31-2023, 07:42 PM

Oh no a resignation of a high ranking UN official?

Wait that’s a bad thing right?

Flacker · 10-31-2023, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Oh no a resignation of a high ranking UN official?

Wait that’s a bad thing right?

Toothless organization is toothless. Shocking revelation for all.

FlameOn · 10-31-2023, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WCW Nitro

What would the UN Human Rights Chief know, we have to believe Israel only.

I would expect what's coming out of there to have a stark tonal shift from end of this week forward. Iran, staunch defender of human rights with a spotless record, will be taking over as Chair of the UN Human Rights Forum on Thursday. Thought it was a joke at first.

https://unwatch.org/iran-to-chair-un...r%20the%20post.

Language · 10-31-2023, 07:58 PM

Why does the UN still exist? Serious question.

Like maybe for certain initiatives or humanitarian missions, but when it comes to the entire Security Council meetings, it’s a complete joke and is irrelevant.

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Bagor · 10-31-2023, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Oh no a resignation of a high ranking UN official?

Wait that’s a bad thing right?

Textbook case of genocide.
Up to around 420 children killed or injured a day.

RobotTalk · 10-31-2023, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WCW Nitro

What I am saying is if Hamas says that in their calculations they did the attacks to put pressure and end the occupation/settlements, would that be acceptable to you? Or is it only Israel which is allowed to kill civilians?

Well no, because attacking civilians for the sake of attacking civilians, even if Hamas' stated purpose is eliminating settlements, means they're not attacking a military or dual-use target so that attack would be a war crime. Conversely, Hamas would be justified in attacking a civilian target if, for example, Israel located a military command post in an Israeli school.

That said, Israel doesn't tend to station it's military in civilian areas because it want's to avoid civilian casualties unlike Hamas, which located a command post underneath a refuge camp or, if the Israelis are to be believed, located its main military command post under Gaza's biggest hospital.

https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/isr...ByP1kZBVpP2yRG

In your world, are Hamas military targets (senior commanders/arms depots/troop quarters) located underneath or inside civilian facilities like hospitals completely off limits and thus able to plan and carry out attacks against Israel at will?

Bill Bumface · 10-31-2023, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

And yes bombing civilians can save civilians in the long run, it's estimated that the atomic bombs dropped on Japan saved upwards of 30 million people.

Ima need a citation for your estimate that .... over 40% of the population of Japan would have died without the nuclear mass murder of civilians.

And let's not forget that Japan had already approached the Soviets to see if they would broker peace and were looking extremely likely to surrender before the planned US invasion commenced in November.

But no, you're right, they probably would have waited until.... almost half of the country died instead. That makes TOTAL sense.

Holy hell.

Language · 10-31-2023, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bagor

Textbook case of genocide.
Up to around 420 children killed or injured a day.

Do you also then agree that what Hamas did on Oct 7 was genocide? Since they slaughtered 1400+ people, and their actual stated charter calls for the annihilation of Israel. Is that not textbook case of genocide?

Follow up question - when the Allies bombed Dresden during WW2, was that genocide? Was it genocide when the US dropped an atomic bomb on genocide?

Is all war where there are innocent people killed considered genocide?

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WCW Nitro · 10-31-2023, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobotTalk

Well no, because attacking civilians for the sake of attacking civilians, even if Hamas' stated purpose is eliminating settlements, means they're not attacking a military or dual-use target so that attack would be a war crime. Conversely, Hamas would be justified in attacking a civilian target if, for example, Israel located a military command post in an Israeli school.

That said, Israel doesn't tend to station it's military in civilian areas because it want's to avoid civilian casualties unlike Hamas, which located a command post underneath a refuge camp or, if the Israelis are to be believed, located its main military command post under Gaza's biggest hospital.

https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/isr...ByP1kZBVpP2yRG

In your world, are Hamas military targets (senior commanders/arms depots/troop quarters) located underneath or inside civilian facilities like hospitals completely off limits and thus able to plan and carry out attacks against Israel at will?

What you said was killing civilians is ok if the intent is to minimize future suffering. So Hamas can make the same justification. Plus, why would anyone believe Israel is not targeting civilians when a) it said it is focused on damage, not accuracy and B) turned off water and food to millions? And this whole "command post" under civilians buildings is I bet just a bunker where some Hamas dudes hang out rather than a sophisticated Batman-like Batcave full of weapons.

Manhattanboy · 10-31-2023, 08:59 PM

Hamas supporters in denial as to what happened on October 7.

We know Hamas are the lowest of scum sucking vermin. Hitler would be proud. That’s why to an extent we are more disappointed in the intel, security and political failures in Israel to prevent the massacres.

The cheering around the world is disgusting.

Language · 10-31-2023, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WCW Nitro

What you said was killing civilians is ok if the intent is to minimize future suffering. So Hamas can make the same justification. Plus, why would anyone believe Israel is not targeting civilians when a) it said it is focused on damage, not accuracy and B) turned off water and food to millions? And this whole "command post" under civilians buildings is I bet just a bunker where some Hamas dudes hang out rather than a sophisticated Batman-like Batcave full of weapons.

Why does Israel owe food and water to an area that is self governed by Hamas? With the billions of aid that flows in, should it not be Hamas’s responsibility to effectively govern their territory and provide the necessities for the average Palestinian, as well as to create more economic benefits for them?

Why is Israel responsible, and further than that, deemed an apartheid regime, and be expected to continue providing for the area that is ruled by those that openly want to destroy it? And let’s not get into historical arguments. I’m talking as of today and what’s going on there now.

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Manhattanboy · 10-31-2023, 09:20 PM

Hamas admitted it themselves. They have no interest in building a state, Singapore or otherwise, or providing the necessities of life for their citizens. According to them that’s up to Israel and the UN.

What a world.

Bagor · 10-31-2023, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Language

Do you also then agree that what Hamas did on Oct 7 was genocide? Since they slaughtered 1400+ people, and their actual stated charter calls for the annihilation of Israel. Is that not textbook case of genocide?

Yes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Language

Follow up question - when the Allies bombed Dresden during WW2, was that genocide? Was it genocide when the US dropped an atomic bomb on genocide?

Is all war where there are innocent people killed considered genocide?

Not qualified to comment on Dresden.
US. Yes. Fits the definition of genocide.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Language

Is all war where there are innocent people killed considered genocide?

No. Variables. Intent. Recklessness. Regard for human life.

Your turn.
Do you agree with the statement that Israel's actions amount to a "textbook case of genocide".
If not? Why not?

WCW Nitro · 10-31-2023, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Language

Why does Israel owe food and water to an area that is self governed by Hamas? With the billions of aid that flows in, should it not be Hamas’s responsibility to effectively govern their territory and provide the necessities for the average Palestinian, as well as to create more economic benefits for them?

Why is Israel responsible, and further than that, deemed an apartheid regime, and be expected to continue providing for the area that is ruled by those that openly want to destroy it? And let’s not get into historical arguments. I’m talking as of today and what’s going on there now.

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Israel controls what goes in and out of Gaza and controls the water and power, so how can Palestinians provide the basic necessities? And it is beyond crazy to suggest that in 2023 starving a civilian population is deemed as acceptable, but here we are.

Manhattanboy · 10-31-2023, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WCW Nitro

Israel controls what goes in and out of Gaza and controls the water and power, so how can Palestinians provide the basic necessities? And it is beyond crazy to suggest that in 2023 starving a civilian population is deemed as acceptable, but here we are.

Hamas could have built power plants, water facilities, and other infrastructure. Their criminal enterprise diverted all aid snd foreign investment. Hell they could have entered into JVs with Israel and had free trade. They are the only ones to blame.

blankall · 10-31-2023, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlameOn

I would expect what's coming out of there to have a stark tonal shift from end of this week forward. Iran, staunch defender of human rights with a spotless record, will be taking over as Chair of the UN Human Rights Forum on Thursday. Thought it was a joke at first.

https://unwatch.org/iran-to-chair-un...r%20the%20post.

How is this possible? They just violently suppressed massive protests caused by police beating a woman for not covering her hair. Literally just a few months ago they opened fire on protestors.

Manhattanboy · 10-31-2023, 09:42 PM

Re that wonderful bastion of human rights in Iran I would recommend viewing of The Stoning of Soraya M. It will shake you to your core.

WCW Nitro · 10-31-2023, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Hamas could have built power plants, water facilities, and other infrastructure. Their criminal enterprise diverted all aid snd foreign investment. Hell they could have entered into JVs with Israel and had free trade. They are the only ones to blame.

Netanyahu himself said Israel was propping up Hamas as a low level threat to ensure the Palestinians never get a state, this notion that Israel wanted a prosperous Gaza is ridiculous. And of course there is no Hamas in the West Bank and they get rewarded with settlements.

Manhattanboy · 10-31-2023, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WCW Nitro

Netanyahu himself said Israel was propping up Hamas as a low level threat to ensure the Palestinians never get a state, this notion that Israel wanted a prosperous Gaza is ridiculous. And of course there is no Hamas in the West Bank and they get rewarded with settlements.

They could have disarmed and recognized Israel at anytime snd statehood would have immediately followed. They can have a state right now. Tomorrow. But to quote that famous phrase they never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.