[News] CalgaryNEXT Announcement. New arena details emerge.

[nfotiu]

Reading through this, I have to ask... How in the world did a field house get a 200 million dollar price tag associated with it? My kid's youth soccer club is building a pretty nice field house for themselves mostly financed with bingo money, and I can't imagine their budget even gets very deep into the 7 figures.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

National Post running an opinion piece by members of the Canadian Taxpayers Federation on how Abbotsford got the "Flames hooked on corporate welfare" and Alberta should avoid falling into the same trap.

http://news.nationalpost.com/full-co...porate-welfare

While the sentiment of "no taxpayer dollars for private enterprise" is definitely a defensible and justified stance, the conclusion that somehow the Abbotsford situation "hooked" the Flames is laughable. So they wouldn't have asked for public money, but for the Abbotsford deal?

From the story:
The 7,000 seat Abbotsford Centre now sits empty more than 300 nights a year, a grim reminder of the poison of handing taxpayer money over to billionaire hockey club owners. It has just seven ticketed events scheduled over the next six months.

Pretty sure the Abbotsford Centre would sit empty for approximately 350 nights, had the Flames not shown up. Not a good reason to build an arena, but that is on the city of Abbotsford for building the thing in the first place, not the Flames or any other private enterprise that might be a tenant.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

Reading through this, I have to ask... How in the world did a field house get a 200 million dollar price tag associated with it? My kid's youth soccer club is building a pretty nice field house for themselves mostly financed with bingo money, and I can't imagine their budget even gets very deep into the 7 figures.

That does seem like a lot, but the original plan (to be built at the Foothills Athletic Park, I believe), includes basketball, volleyball, training facilities, etc. Much more than a soccer field. Still seems like a steep price tag, though.

[Tyler]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

Reading through this, I have to ask... How in the world did a field house get a 200 million dollar price tag associated with it? My kid's youth soccer club is building a pretty nice field house for themselves mostly financed with bingo money, and I can't imagine their budget even gets very deep into the 7 figures.

Perhaps, just perhaps.... the city is planning on building a more ambitious field house than your kid's youth soccer club? Just maybe?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

National Post running an opinion piece by members of the Canadian Taxpayers Federation on how Abbotsford got the "Flames hooked on corporate welfare" and Alberta should avoid falling into the same trap.

http://news.nationalpost.com/full-co...porate-welfare

The CTF is a one trick pony and to me, any good arguments they have get lost in the overall noise about pretty much any public spending or anything with "tax" in its name (i.e. ticket tax).

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

Reading through this, I have to ask... How in the world did a field house get a 200 million dollar price tag associated with it? My kid's youth soccer club is building a pretty nice field house for themselves mostly financed with bingo money, and I can't imagine their budget even gets very deep into the 7 figures.

Sweet, can we bring the Stampeders and 30,000 fans down so we can see what a fieldhouse that can host CFL football games with bingo money looks like? That's pretty impressive.

[GioforPM]

I don't know which soccer facility you are talking about, but I've played in one (the Calgary Soccer Centre) and its turf resembled concrete. It had almost no stands, and a single food facility.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Sweet, can we bring the Stampeders and 30,000 fans down so we can see what a fieldhouse that can host CFL football games with bingo money looks like? That's pretty impressive.

What I was reading is that a field house was identified as a important need for Calgary and was proposed for foothills a couple years ago, somehow the cost for that ballooned to 200 million dollars for a mixed use field house. If I am reading right, the Flames/Stamps proposal is to take that 200 million targeted towards the proposed field house, and instead call the Stamps stadium a Fieldhouse/stadium and pretend they are delivering 200 million worth of value for a field house to the public. When in actuality, you can get a very nice, functional field house for a tiny fraction of 200 million that wouldn't have to be shared with the Stamps, Concerts, etc.

[Ducay]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

What I was reading is that a field house was identified as a important need for Calgary and was proposed for foothills a couple years ago, somehow the cost for that ballooned to 200 million dollars for a mixed use field house. If I am reading right, the Flames/Stamps proposal is to take that 200 million targeted towards the proposed field house, and instead call the Stamps stadium a Fieldhouse/stadium and pretend they are delivering 200 million worth of value for a field house to the public. When in actuality, you can get a very nice, functional field house for a tiny fraction of 200 million that wouldn't have to be shared with the Stamps, Concerts, etc.

Fabulous coles notes of the fieldhouse issue.

Big problem as well is with the fieldhouse, like remediation, while both were projects that were planned in the future, they were both unfunded and did not have any sort of date in mind, so they're being forced on us a lot sooner than we would otherwise be considering.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

What I was reading is that a field house was identified as a important need for Calgary and was proposed for foothills a couple years ago, somehow the cost for that ballooned to 200 million dollars for a mixed use field house. If I am reading right, the Flames/Stamps proposal is to take that 200 million targeted towards the proposed field house, and instead call the Stamps stadium a Fieldhouse/stadium and pretend they are delivering 200 million worth of value for a field house to the public. When in actuality, you can get a very nice, functional field house for a tiny fraction of 200 million that wouldn't have to be shared with the Stamps, Concerts, etc.

The Moose Jaw multiplex (AKA Mosaic Place) cost $63M (in 2015 dollars). Even that is more than a tiny fraction of $200M, for a facility that serves a city wth a population of of 33K or so.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

The Moose Jaw multiplex (AKA Mosaic Place) cost $63M (in 2015 dollars). Even that is more than a tiny fraction of $200M, for a facility that serves a city wth a population of of 33K or so.

You are correct but don't let facts get in the way of an internet argument.

The owners proposed field house would be in the neighborhood of $450 million and would utilize the $200 million the city budgeted for the original field house.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Don't let facts get in the way of an internet argument. The owners proposed field house would be in the neighborhood of $450 million and would utilize the $200 million the city budgeted for the original field house.

Don't let reading the line of posts get in yours.

I was responding to a specific post that claimed a facility could be built for a tiny fraction of $200K. Complain about the use of the figrue to that poster, if you must.

The Moose Jaw facility doesn't include a football stadium. In fact, I'm not sure it qualifies as a field house, though I've seen it referred to as such.

[GioforPM]

The Toronto fieldhouse/aquatics centre was $200K and seats 2000 for the fieldhouse and 6000 for the aquatics centre.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

The Toronto fieldhouse/aquatics centre was $200K and seats 2000 for the fieldhouse and 6000 for the aquatics centre.

Why does an aquatics centre require seating? I can't imagine wanting to watch people swim, but hey, that's me.

And often renovations tend to be less expensive because depending on ownership dynamics the land tends to already be owned and accounted for as a sunk cost as opposed to having to buy land as part of a new project.

He'll, take the cost of the land out of this equation and it probably looks much more palatable.

[Coach]

They would have needed seating for the Pan Am games.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Locke

Why does an aquatics centre require seating? I can't imagine wanting to watch people swim, but hey, that's me.

And often renovations tend to be less expensive because depending on ownership dynamics the land tends to already be owned and accounted for as a sunk cost as opposed to having to buy land as part of a new project.

He'll, take the cost of the land out of this equation and it probably looks much more palatable.

I agree - without land cost and adding an enclosed football sized field, probably doable.

Painting with a very large brush, the objections are either "too much money" or "not fancy enough", so maybe they are on the right track to the middle ground?

[SebC]

Originally Posted by gioforpm

the toronto fieldhouse/aquatics centre was $200k and seats 2000 for the fieldhouse and 6000 for the aquatics centre.

$205m

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Locke

I dont like the idea of a fieldhouse that turns into a stadium. I think it lacks that iconic aspect of a stadium.

"Where are we going this week? Tim Horton's Stadium? Nope. The City of Calgary Fieldhouse."

Are you calling disuse an iconic aspect?

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by SebC

$205m

Whoops.

[craigwd]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

What I was reading is that a field house was identified as a important need for Calgary and was proposed for foothills a couple years ago, somehow the cost for that ballooned to 200 million dollars for a mixed use field house. If I am reading right, the Flames/Stamps proposal is to take that 200 million targeted towards the proposed field house, and instead call the Stamps stadium a Fieldhouse/stadium and pretend they are delivering 200 million worth of value for a field house to the public. When in actuality, you can get a very nice, functional field house for a tiny fraction of 200 million that wouldn't have to be shared with the Stamps, Concerts, etc.

No, this is wrong.

I don't think you are fully envisioning what a complete multisport fieldhouse looks like.
The original Foothills project was always going to come in around $200-205 million; ever since I started hearing plans for it 5 or 6 years ago.

It's a big project and should have been funded by the city yesterday.

These are from 2013, but the I believe the $200million number has been around since 2008.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...rdle-1.1351158

http://www.calgaryfieldhouse.ca/cmfs...s-join-forces/