The Legend of Sam Bennett

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

(Bennett's most substantial contribution when he isn't scoring is a negative one: he constantly puts his team down a player.)

Why are we continuing to wring our hands about a complementary player who was traded for a fair return and is now eighth on his new team in scoring?

This just isn’t an accurate assessment.

[TheScorpion]

Among the 569 NHL players with at least 200 minutes played this season, Bennett ranks 36th with 1.43 minor penalties/60. He constantly puts his team down. It was a noticeable problem in Calgary, too.

He's not a great defensive player, he's a net-negative player on both the PP and PK, and he doesn't draw a ton of penalties. His +3.8 total Goals Above Replacement, by Evolving-Hockey's model, would put him 9th on the Flames, right above Lucic and Monahan — the guys people want to run out of town.

And Bennett is suddenly playing to his potential as a top-five pick the first time he's barely on pace for 50 points? On a Presidents' Trophy team?

[AustinL_NHL]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

(Bennett's most substantial contribution when he isn't scoring is a negative one: he constantly puts his team down a player.)

Why are we continuing to wring our hands about a complementary player who was traded for a fair return and is now eighth on his new team in scoring?

Completely disagree. Bennett has great defensive impacts on the Panthers and is an excellent energy player who hits as hard as anyone and sticks up for his teammates.

He's drawn as many penalties as he's taken (8 apiece) so he's as net-neutral in that area as possible

[AustinL_NHL]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Among the 569 NHL players with at least 200 minutes played this season, Bennett ranks 36th with 1.43 minor penalties/60. He constantly puts his team down. It was a noticeable problem in Calgary, too.

He's not a great defensive player, he's a net-negative player on both the PP and PK, and he doesn't draw a ton of penalties. His +3.8 total Goals Above Replacement, by Evolving-Hockey's model, would put him 9th on the Flames, right above Lucic and Monahan — the guys people want to run out of town.

And Bennett is suddenly playing to his potential as a top-five pick the first time he's barely on pace for 50 points? On a Presidents' Trophy team?

How can you say he takes a ton of penalties but doesn't draw a ton of penalties when he's taken 8 and drawn 8?

Ranks 56th in the NHL in Penalties Drawn/60 using your same criteria

[TheScorpion]

Bennett this year, via Evolving-Hockey:

-0.2 shorthanded defensive goals above replacement (19th on FLA)
+0.4 even strength defensive goals above replacement (9th on FLA)
+4.8 even strength offensive goals above replacement (3rd on FLA)
-0.6 power play offensive goals above replacement (23rd on FLA, worst on team)
-1.0 penalties taken goals above replacement (23rd on FLA, worst on team)
+0.3 penalties drawn goals above replacement (7th on FLA)

That's a top-five pick playing to his potential?

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by AustinL_NHL

How can you say he takes a ton of penalties but doesn't draw a ton of penalties when he's taken 8 and drawn 8?

Ranks 56th in the NHL in Penalties Drawn/60 using your same criteria

He's taken 13 and drawn 9.

Was looking at 5v5 when I got the initial rate statistic. Bennett has actually taken the 12th-most minor penalties/60 in the NHL — 1.62 for every 60 minutes of ice time.

That's the 12th-most out of 598 players. Pretty staggering.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Bennett this year, via Evolving-Hockey:

-0.2 shorthanded defensive goals above replacement (19th on FLA)
+0.4 even strength defensive goals above replacement (9th on FLA)
+4.8 even strength offensive goals above replacement (3rd on FLA)
-0.6 power play offensive goals above replacement (23rd on FLA, worst on team)
-1.0 penalties taken goals above replacement (23rd on FLA, worst on team)
+0.3 penalties drawn goals above replacement (7th on FLA)

That's a top-five pick playing to his potential?

You’re 100% correct.

At the same time, you’re not going to change the mind of the Bennett fans.

Darryl , 100%, had input on that trade and the right move was made.

He disabled his team last year, in the playoffs. He’s got some talent, not enough to make up for his inadequacies.

[AustinL_NHL]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

He's taken 13 and drawn 9.

Was looking at 5v5 when I got the initial rate statistic. Bennett has actually taken the 12th-most minor penalties/60 in the NHL — 1.62 for every 60 minutes of ice time.

That's the 12th-most out of 598 players. Pretty staggering.

Was also looking at 5v5.

But even then, over the course of a season, that's a net difference of about 12 penalties, or about 2.3 goals against using Florida's PK%.

Obviously you prefer players to draw more than they take, but it's not like an extra 2 goals against is going kill the Panthers.

Bennett provides a lot more value in other areas when he's not scoring. Completely disagree that him taking penalties is the only thing he does when he's not scoring. Not to mention he continues to produce at an excellent rate when it matters most in the Playoffs.

[TheScorpion]

I don't even mind Bennett as a player but he's not a saviour. He's a nice player to have around and he can help on the right line. Florida can thrive with him because they're more than capable of killing penalties and coming up with timely goals in response to PPGs against. Calgary wasn't able to use him in the same way, especially with another penalty machine in Tkachuk already in the top six. Calgary isn't as deep as Florida and doesn't have the same environment to enable Bennett to succeed.

He's still nowhere close to living up to his draft position.

[Johnny Makarov]

Can he do a pullup yet?

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Now do a penalty comparison for Milan Lucic and discuss his impact on the ice.

I love ya Scorp, but you have an inability to understand nuance with certain types of players. Not everything is boiled down to a spreadsheet. I say this as a person who loves data and spreadsheets.

Jesus Christ, are we still putting stats up without context? Did I see a comparison to Tkachuk who draws penalties more than most players in the NHL?

[Flamesfan05]

Why are we talking about Bennett draft position? That’s disingenuous in order to trash him
Fact is he is a good player. He is making Coleman money not superstar money. He is fine doing what is expected of him

[Rutuu]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Among the 569 NHL players with at least 200 minutes played this season, Bennett ranks 36th with 1.43 minor penalties/60. He constantly puts his team down. It was a noticeable problem in Calgary, too.

He's not a great defensive player, he's a net-negative player on both the PP and PK, and he doesn't draw a ton of penalties. His +3.8 total Goals Above Replacement, by Evolving-Hockey's model, would put him 9th on the Flames, right above Lucic and Monahan — the guys people want to run out of town.

And Bennett is suddenly playing to his potential as a top-five pick the first time he's barely on pace for 50 points? On a Presidents' Trophy team?

Love the figures. Bennett got picked up in our fantasy league this year because we count PIMs.

Also good on you for taking on the eye-test and intangibles crowd.

Reminds me I haven't had a discussion about "clutch" or karma in a few years.

Bennett's year was the year to trade down...like 4 second rounders and two 3rds for the 4th overall.

[DeluxeMoustache]

I just have to lol at the presentation of Short handed defensive GAR.

Do go on!

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Joborule

They're just rationalizing ####ing up the highest ever pick in Calgary Flames history not panning out here due to continuous terrible coaching and management. Easier to swallow the bitter pill of him playing to his expected potential somewhere else.

luckily this hasn't happened

You would think he had 50 already points already the way some of you talk

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Why are we talking about Bennett draft position? That’s disingenuous in order to trash him
Fact is he is a good player. He is making Coleman money not superstar money. He is fine doing what is expected of him

uh, it was a Bennett booster who brought it up saying we were all just jelly that he is living up to his draft potential elsewhere. Not really true at all.

[Saqe]

Bringing up points with Bennett is like buying a pickup truck and then complaining it doesn't compete against a Ferrari. It's the biggest red herring out there. He's a bowling ball on the ice and will be huge for them in the playoffs.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Like he was in losing against the Lightning last spring. Cost his team huge when they were on a roll and were looking unstoppable.

[Cambardi]

My concern with Bennett was more so where the penalties took place. As I recall, he took so many offensive zone penalties.

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Like he was in losing against the Lightning last spring. Cost his team huge when they were on a roll and were looking unstoppable.

He was one of the biggest reasons why they looked so good against Tampa to begin with. Sure, he took that costly suspension and he needs to control himself better, that's fair criticism.