[News] With the 21st overall pick Flames select C Mark Jankowski

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by guuar

No I'm not down for it at all. But, that is the kind of assets that Rutherford is going to squeeze out from under Treliving.



Treliving is stubborn and believes he is getting good value. When he sees the player he wants does things that ARE NOT intelligent.



The Hamilton trade is going to be won by Boston. We got a Top 4 D that fits with our core. Two of the players Boston drafted;



Right Winger Zachary Senyshyn + Defenceman Brandon Carlo.



Carlo is already a Top4 Dman in his rookie season in the league. Zachary Senyshyn has 87 goals in 125 games his last 2 seasons in Junior.



Unless Hamilton turns into a bonafide #1 D who is Top5 in Norris voting each year we are going to end up losing this trade.



Zachary Senyshyn is easily the kind of player. Put him with Monahan and Gaudreau and the kid could be hitting 50+ in the NHL.



It just goes to show that Treliving will make decisions he knows are risky. Everyone is so quick to say we should be all over re-signing him.



What has he done that Feaster couldn't have done?



Both Feaster and Treliving have made down right idiotic UFA signings in Wideman and Brouwer. Both signings made out of utter desperation when there was nobody else worth signing left available.



Both made idiotic trades and signings in desperation to magically fix our goaltending situation. Feaster gave up a 2nd round pick for a KHL goalie named Ramo. At least Ramo had some unknowns with a potential for being a #1.



Treliving was such an intelligent GM he handed out a 2 year contract to Jonas Hiller. Easily the worst signing in the history of the franchise. Treliving had to top Feaster though so he traded a 2nd round pick for a goalie known to fail under pressure in Brian Elliot.



What has Treliving done, really tell me? He's don't nothing more or less than any reasonable replacement would have done. If anything we are behind where we should be as a result of the dumb moves he's made.



He is stubborn and will make stupid decisions as a result. Like his big daddy, Jimbo, he doesn't like admitting he's wrong or that he's failed.

Wow. You are actually out of your mind. The Hamilton trade was an incredible trade for us... right at this moment we are the clear winners, hands down, no argument. Possibly in the future Boston MAY win the trade, but that is pure speculation.

You keep saying Treliving is stubborn... where is there any evidence of this at all? You are living in an absolute fantasyland... and that trade proposal for Murray... dear God, if that happened our entire front office would be fired and would never be heard from again.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Monahan is turning 22
Bennett is turning 21

While it seems like they've been around long enough that we can gauge them as players, there's still 3-4 years of growth there for both players before we fully know their ceilings. That's what is continually lost on people. Of course Getzlaf and Kesler are better right now, but they have 8-9 years on our centers. They're seasoned pros and have had a lot more time to figure out the NHL game.

You can't even make those comparisons, really, cause you're talking about players in different stages of their careers.

People continue to forget that the Flames are still a work in progress. We're so accustomed to this instant gratification and what have you done for me lately, but what if we see the kind of progression we have in Backlund but in two guys with more skill at their disposal? Have to exercise patience, as easy as it is to forget that.

Getzlaf had 82 points in his third season and 91 in his fourth.

Kesler scored 59 points in his fourth season as a defensive centre.

Hopefully Monahan continues to develop but the flames don't have the offense up front from the centre position that many other teams in the league have. The way the flames will get that is if janko it Bennett turns into 60 point players in their own right.

It's not an insult, it's reality.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I think a lot of people set excessive expectations on what constitutes second line production in the NHL. On average, most NHL second line players are scoring between 35–40 points—this past season there were 143 +40-point-players, which amounts to less than five per team. 17 teams had more than four +40-point players on their roster, and only nine at least six players.

You don't make comparisons to the 14 teams who erent good enough to make the playiffs, you make comparisons to the trams comfortably in the dance.

You emulate the best teams, not make yourselves feel good by comparing to the worst.

How many of the team's currently in the playoffs have less than 5 40pt players?

[Textcritic]

I am doing nothing but pointing out that average second line production the the NHL is around the 40-point mark.

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

You don't make comparisons to the 14 teams who erent good enough to make the playiffs, you make comparisons to the trams comfortably in the dance.

You emulate the best teams, not make yourselves feel good by comparing to the worst.

How many of the team's currently in the playoffs have less than 5 40pt players?

I assume you mean players with more than 40.

Anaheim had 5;
Ed had 6;
Nash had 7 (one at 40 exactly);
Rangers had 7 (one at 40);
Sens had 4;
Pens had 6;
Blues had 7 (one at 40);
Caps had 6.

Calgary had 6. Exactly average of the remaining playoff teams.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I am doing nothing but pointing out that average second line production the the NHL is around the 40-point mark.

And generates league average results.

Just a quick statistical rundown:

Predators
2 x 60pt players
1 x 50pt player
4 x 40pt players

Blues
1 x 75pt player
2 x 50pt players
4 x 40pt players

Oilers
1 x 100pt player
1 x 70pt player
2 x 50pt players
2 x 40pt players

Ducks
1 x 70pt player
3 x 50pt players
1 x 40pt player

Caps
1 x 80pt player
1 x 60pt player
3 x 50pt players
1 x 40pt player

Pens
1 x 80pt player
2 x 70pt players
2 x 50pt players
1 x 40pt players

Sens
1 x 70pt player
1 x 60pt player
2 x 50pt players

Rangers
4 x 50pt players
3 x 40 pt players


Flames
1 x 60pt player
3 x 50pt players
2 x 40pt players


The Flames finished lower in Goals For than all of the above save the Sens and Ducks. Getting league average production for your second line players isn't going to result in much success. In fact, Backlund's 50 points this year is a great example of this point as it was the consistent offense from his line combined with his defensive presence that helped catapult the flames into the playoffs.

The original tangent came from the comment from Jayswin that Backlund wasn't an elite second line centre, which you disagreed with. What is the difference between a good and elite second line centre? a handful of points?

[Pliddy]

Just checked in to this thread after a long absence, good to see it still has nothing to do with Jankowski. Oddly enough I thought there was a chance he made some news with the Heat....I should have known better

[Reggie Dunlop]

Originally Posted by Pliddy

Just checked in to this thread after a long absence, good to see it still has nothing to do with Jankowski. Oddly enough I thought there was a chance he made some news with the Heat....I should have known better

Mark Jankowski is good at hockey.

[Pliddy]

I am now updated

[Textcritic]

He's got an assist so far in tonight's game.

[Pliddy]

That is too much info for a thread about Jankowski. What did Treliving have for lunch today?.. Was it better than Feaster's lunch?

[Moneyhands23]

Janko picked up another assist tonight. Game 5 on tuesday! Hopefully he has a big game and the team makes the 2nd round!

[Canada 02]

5 points in 4 playoff games; tied for team lead and one off the league lead, with the leader having played 5 games

[handgroen]

Originally Posted by Par

That post is not as bad as you say.

get a shiny new account to post from?

[djsFlames]

He's killing it in Stockton.

Knowing that he's a rookie makes me ecstatic. Will be a good, and FREE addition to the top 9 in october, if all things go well. If he needs a little more cooking in the A then that's fine too, can be a midseason call up.

[handgroen]

stockton won tonight BTW

winner takes all in game 5

[djsFlames]

I feel like we could be discussing the Heat playoff games in the Fire on Ice forum. Doesn't seem to get enough exposure in the back burner, and it's easily the storyline of most interest now to Flames fans with no parent team action.

[guuar]

Originally Posted by VilleN

Wow. You are actually out of your mind. The Hamilton trade was an incredible trade for us... right at this moment we are the clear winners, hands down, no argument. Possibly in the future Boston MAY win the trade, but that is pure speculation.

You keep saying Treliving is stubborn... where is there any evidence of this at all? You are living in an absolute fantasyland... and that trade proposal for Murray... dear God, if that happened our entire front office would be fired and would never be heard from again.


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We won the trade?

Please tell me how? Because we acquired a #3 D man that lacks the Hockey IQ or rather straight forward intelligence on how to prevent bad penalties and bad goals?

Hamilton is a good offensive D man however throughout the season and even into the playoffs he cost us.

The Bruins by trading Lucic and Hamilton ended up drafting five times in the 1st round and four times in the 2nd round within the 2015 and 2016 NHL entry drafts.

They were able to re-stock their talent pool very rapidly. People should look at the players they took in those two years. All three players they got from Calgary are all high quality players.

Zachary Senyshyn could easily turn into a 30-40 goal right winger at the NHL level. He's been scoring at an incredible pace in junior.

Come to think of geee, Calgary could really use a 6'1" 200lb pure goal scoring right winger couldn't they.

Fact still remains Treliving had not one but two deals in front of him at the 2016 NHL draft. Both included a #1 goalie and high quality prospect. Both deals were completely fair.

Heck they are still fair even after we found out Tkachuk was falling to #6.

The morning of the entry draft it sounded as if that #6 pick was being traded.

Here's why.

There were realistically 2 players in the draft Treliving knew he had a shot at and only two players that they felt would make an impact on the current lineup.

Jesse Poolparty and Matthew Tkachuk.

The thought was Treliving needed either the #3 or #4 pick to have any hope at either.

Right up until Columbus took Dubois there was uncertainty if they were trading that pick or not. When Columbus took Dubois it became 50/50 on whether or not Vancouver would take Juolevi or Tkachuk.

The player the Canucks actually wanted was Dubois.

When Treliving realized he had the opportunity to get Tkachuk he rejected the two options he had at acquiring #1 goalies and instead settled for what was really a contingency option.

The two deals that were rumored....

Ben Bishop + Jonathan Drouin

&

Matt Murray + Derek Pouliot

The reason for not trading with Tampa was clear. Acquire Elliot for a very cheap price knowing it was a one year stop gap. There was NEVER ANY intention on Treliving's side to keep Elliot for more than a year.

He knew from talking with Bishop's agent he was fully expecting a minimum 6x8 or 7x7 contract or would be going to free agency.

So......

Does it make sense for Calgary to trade Tkachuk straight up for Drouin?

I'm sure every single Calgary Flames fan would agree that would be a bad trade.

Had Treliving wanted to sincerely extend Elliot waiting for him to enter UFA or even later on in the season didn't make any sense at all.

Had Elliot played lights out the first 50 games of the season and Calgary is sitting in 1st in the Pacific Treliving is FORCED absolutely FORCED to extend Elliot as he all the sudden becomes our savior.

If Elliot puts up Vezina quality numbers Treliving is giving 4/5 years @ 6.5M+. If Elliot's GAA is sitting at 2.07 and his Save PCT is at .930 he would be a top 3 finalist for the Vezina. There is no way you are telling your fan base you are not giving your new Vezina goalie a new deal in favor of signing Ben Bishop after Bishop has one of the worst statistical years of his career.

FYI this is the same reason St. Louis traded him.

They didn't want to be forced with the prospect of having to give Elliot big money when Jake Allen was equally up to the task.

Things thus far have went fine without acquiring either Bishop or Murray.

I'm one fan that firmly believes Ben Bishop is the only target being considered right now. Matt Murray is the only other option but only if Rutherford magically grows a brain and realizes Fleury is the #1 to keep.

Trading or Signing any other backup goalie that you have dreams of turning into your #1 goalie is straight forward......

######ED.

We don't need a maybe in net this year. Give us a legit Top 10 #1 Starter and we are finishing Top 2 in the Pacific and Top 4 in the WC.

There is NO point playing around thinking of pickard, grubauer, darling, korpisalor or raanta. We have a high quality #2 in Jon Gilles that we can bring along as our own #1 project without spending a single penny.

[The Fonz]

Jesus Christ

[Street Pharmacist]

Worst hot take in years? Like by a lot?