I gave you a brief account of my opinion and suggested a book you might read, which you immediately dismissed as nothing new to you. I have no responsibility to provide a campaign strategy that could have won Hillary the election.
Your responses have been badgering and accusatory but you won't answer one simple question I'm asking you. That's not engaging in a conversation in good faith. I didn't come in here for a fight and I have no interest in being interrogated by some random guy.
Am I trolling? I seriously don't know how to ask the question any simpler without pictures.
You stated, for a fact that Hillarys loss is Hillarys fault, and I am asking a question so simple, Donny Trump, might even be able to answer it.
What should Hillary have done different?
Very simple question.
And , No, I am not going to a read a book for your answers, I want to hear from you, but good try on the Peter12 strategy.
I started watching that and the guy was just so sleazy and shameless/proud of his own sleaziness that I had to turn it off after 10 minutes.
Does he have any redeeming qualities?
That a scumbag like that can have so much influence was a real downer.
I watched the whole thing, and I agree. I did find it fascinating in a horrific train wreck kind of way, but it's definitely one of those documentaries that just makes you angry, similar to films like Inside Job, Dear Zachary, and Enron-The Smartest Guys in the Room.
Stone is a slimy, evil dirtbag with no redeeming qualities whatsoever, and he's basically the personification of everything that's wrong with America. He and Trump are the perfect match.
Clinton stopped campaigning. Whether it was fatigue or overconfidence, she stopped getting out and showing the people in those important states that they were front and center, even if they weren't. Trump took the rust belt states because he spoke to them and told them what the wanted to hear. He made a connection with their values and because of that the voters trusted him. Clinton did not of that. If anything, she never showed America where her values were. The only thing people were certain about was he quest for power. Clinton needed to show she was human and that she understood the plight of the little guy. She failed miserably in that regard. She had a fantastic platform and was very strong on the bookish policy stuff, but as far as making connections with hearts and minds, she was weak as hell. To make matters worse, her running mate was even worse.
this is the gist of the voters, voting for a candidate that was full of ####, but telling them what they wanted to hear, or voting logically. Voting with emotion or voting with your brain. Clinton was pretty much saying she was going to continue Obamas game plan, the one that was creating jobs, and not attacking random countries. The voters voted to repeal and replace Obamacare (but keep ACA)and bring back coal jobs and look what they have now.
Basically, to me that they voted with emotions, not logic.
Not much could have changed their minds, unless you drop the pretence of honesty. That was Hillarys and the Dems problem, not willing to treat the voters the way they wanted to be treated, like gullible rubes.
Also, there's that little fact that she did take 3 million more votes, than the current president.
Yep we'll never know, but I am geniuinely curious if you believe Sanders vs Hillary was a level playing field in regards to media coverage, DNC support?
That is why I question the result, not because of any cheating, but there are certainly states which have a system in place which benefits Sanders to get delegates, but as a rule most states hold a system which favors traditional candidates, I'm sure Itse or others more tuned in to that primary system with the Democratic primaries favored Hillary vs a populist candidate.
But yeah this is a dead horse, I only discuss it when I think democratic friends in the US still blame Bernie or seem to deny that Hillary has any blame to take for that loss. Because if the DNC and Democrats don't genuinely learn from this loss we will have a very depressing 2018.
ok, well my own personal take:
"level playing field" is a bit of a misnomer. Bernie was always the underdog, in part with the perception that Hillary was "next in line" sort to speak...
part of this was also due to some 'strategic voting', where I believe Hillary's more centrist stance was or would be more palatable to the moderate republican voters... this was a calculation that suggested that Bernie would not be able to compete versus the GOP and Trump because his policies are pretty far left...
As anyone might guess, I would consider myself to be left wing... not far left nor leaning left, but solidly so
That said, I was a Hillary supporter and not a Bernie supporter for exactly the reasons I noted above. In addition, I thought Hillary had a lot better grasp of the international complexities...I definitely wasn't a 'rah rah' Hillary fan however , I struggled with a number of the policies and issues that Bernie used as the foundation of his campaign...
I think the frustration that some have on the DNC side is with the Bernie Supporters who were actively campaigning against Hillary, and not against Bernie himself... there were Bernie supporters that said that there was "no difference" between voting for Hillary and voting for Trump... Many of these hardcore Bernie supporters undoubtedly voted Green, Trump or decided not to vote at all.
They let their anger of perceived democratic establishment bias against Bernie turn into punishing the Democrats, and it turns out, the entire country.
I find it absolutely shameful and appalling that any of the Bernie Democrats would be so blinded by their dislike of Hillary that they could have ignored the clear and present danger that Trump obviously presented.
Those are the folks that the Democrats are angry with, not Bernie... If i was in that vocal minority of pro Bernie/Anti Hillary supporters, I wouldn't be able to look myself in the mirror every morning, knowing my action or inaction might have led to this Trump presidency, which is the greatest constitutional crisis since Nixon.
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Last edited by oldschoolcalgary; 05-14-2017 at 07:07 PM.
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I watched the whole thing, and I agree. I did find it fascinating in a horrific train wreck kind of way, but it's definitely one of those documentaries that just makes you angry, similar to films like Inside Job, Dear Zachary, and Enron-The Smartest Guys in the Room.
Stone is a slimy, evil dirtbag with no redeeming qualities whatsoever, and he's basically the personification of everything that's wrong with America. He and Trump are the perfect match.
So many weird personalities in that administration. I think mike Pence is an alien, like MIB, type alien.
I started watching that and the guy was just so sleazy and shameless/proud of his own sleaziness that I had to turn it off after 10 minutes.
Does he have any redeeming qualities?
That a scumbag like that can have so much influence was a real downer.
Definitely not a feel good Disney documentary, just an unabashed look at this utterly fascinatingly dis-likable guy who has had so much to do with what is wrong with lobbyists, Republican policy, populism, the alt-right, etc..
I think its important to watch it because it explains a lot of why Trump rose to power, what was done to get him there and the people behind the scenes and what they did.
The very simple answer is if you loose to an idiot like Trump you shouldn't have run in the first place, the democrats screwed up big time propping this lying, cheating, unlikable witch on top of the democratic party and giving nobody a chance to beat her.
Senator's Cory Booker and Chris Murphy were rumored to have been told to take a seat (that it wasn't their time) when it's likely if either one had run they would have crushed Clinton and then Trump with ease.
The very simple answer is if you loose to an idiot like Trump you shouldn't have run in the first place, the democrats screwed up big time propping this lying, cheating, unlikable witch on top of the democratic party and giving nobody a chance to beat her.
Serious? Lay off the Fox News.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus
Senator's Cory Booker and Chris Murphy were rumored to have been told to take a seat (that it wasn't their time) when it's likely if either one had run they would have crushed Clinton and then Trump with ease.
Serious? How?
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LOL, it didn't take Fox or Trump to expose her, from her famous 1996 statement where she landed in Bosnia "under sniper fire" to her shameful Benghazi “fog of war" to "all her grandparents immigrated to America" to her "running her own email server" and then deleting the emails, since her husband left the white house her whole life has been lies and how to make millions of dollars in the most sneaky of ways.
Fox and Trump were right about one thing, she should be in jail, American jails are full of people who have done less.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuffMan
Serious? How?
Because they are fresh voices and not yet full of elite clintonitious.
The very simple answer is if you loose to an idiot like Trump you shouldn't have run in the first place, the democrats screwed up big time propping this lying, cheating, unlikable witch on top of the democratic party and giving nobody a chance to beat her.
Senator's Cory Booker and Chris Murphy were rumored to have been told to take a seat (that it wasn't their time) when it's likely if either one had run they would have crushed Clinton and then Trump with ease.
Have something against witches?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus
since her husband left the white house her whole life has been lies and how to make millions of dollars in the most sneaky of ways.
Fox and Trump were right about one thing, she should be in jail, American jails are full of people who have done less.
Citation needed
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LOL, it didn't take Fox or Trump to expose her, from her famous 1996 statement where she landed in Bosnia "under sniper fire" to her shameful Benghazi “fog of war" to "all her grandparents immigrated to America" to her "running her own email server" and then deleting the emails, since her husband left the white house her whole life has been lies and how to make millions of dollars in the most sneaky of ways.
Fox and Trump were right about one thing, she should be in jail, American jails are full of people who have done less
Wow, I seriously started picturing you as Sean Hannity, halfway through reading that.
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LOL, it didn't take Fox or Trump to expose her, from her famous 1996 statement where she landed in Bosnia "under sniper fire" to her shameful Benghazi “fog of war" to "all her grandparents immigrated to America" to her "running her own email server" and then deleting the emails, since her husband left the white house her whole life has been lies and how to make millions of dollars in the most sneaky of ways.
Fox and Trump were right about one thing, she should be in jail, American jails are full of people who have done less.
Fer f--- sakes, not this crap again. Is Snuffleupagus the new Texas Flames Fan?
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LOL, it didn't take Fox or Trump to expose her, from her famous 1996 statement where she landed in Bosnia "under sniper fire" to her shameful Benghazi “fog of war" to "all her grandparents immigrated to America" to her "running her own email server" and then deleting the emails, since her husband left the white house her whole life has been lies and how to make millions of dollars in the most sneaky of ways.
Fox and Trump were right about one thing, she should be in jail, American jails are full of people who have done less.
Trump spews out more lies, boasts, exaggerations and petulant taunts in a week than what Hillary has done in her entire public life...
Nevermind Hannity: the portion of your quote I've highlighted in red makes me think you don't even know who Trump is...If you are actually criticizing Hillary for it.
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