Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

The word conservatism is highly toxic and now needs to die, or at least break apart. It's been hijacked by populists and libertarians. Need a new word to describe the right-of-centre. Especially in Alberta.

And before you say "we had it first" then ask yourself if 'they' are going to give it back. The answer is likely no.

Good luck with that.

[PepsiFree]

If you believe the simple act of conducting a royalty review drove business away you should logically believe that speeches threatening the security of things like healthcare delivery, childcare subsidies, and education quality will certainly drive people from Alberta to provinces not threatening to dismantle these things. Life in Alberta is fine, but it’s not substantially better than anywhere else in Canada that politicians can start messing with the things you get everywhere else in Canada and expect people to stay.

If Alberta doesn’t want to pay doctors and teachers I’m sure other provinces will be happy to.

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

If you believe the simple act of conducting a royalty review drove business away you should logically believe that speeches threatening the security of things like healthcare delivery, childcare subsidies, and education quality will certainly drive people from Alberta to provinces not threatening to dismantle these things. Life in Alberta is fine, but it’s not substantially better than anywhere else in Canada that politicians can start messing with the things you get everywhere else in Canada and expect people to stay.

If Alberta doesn’t want to pay doctors and teachers I’m sure other provinces will be happy to.

The cognitive dissonance of simpletons.

Alberta's back. Good luck with that.

[Duruss]

Originally Posted by GGG

You can’t directly know that. You are attributing things that were likely on motion that may have been marginally accelerated by the current regime. The Family Doctor shortage has been slowly getting worse for many years.

Covid creating a period of high stress causing people to reassess how money,time, and stress interact created a mass disruption on how people assess work and spend money across every industry. This was occurring with or without Kenny and Smith. Did they make it worse? Yes, could Kenny’s polices have been the final straw, sure, is Kenny’s war on healthcare directly affecting you? Certainly not as much as you believe.

In Sundre we lost multiple Doctors due to the UCP, it's well documented. They even released a letter to their patients that literally stated it was because of the UCP.


Or how about the cruelty with AISH thats well documented too. They still refuse to re-index AISH to inflation or to return the payment date to the 25th of the month. The pay pment date thing was called out by the Auditor General for being a failed attempt to cook the books too.

As an Autistic adult I don't think anyone is fear mongering in this thread. The UCP has repeatedly shown us who they are.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Duruss

In Sundre we lost multiple Doctors due to the UCP, it's well documented. They even released a letter to their patients that literally stated it was because of the UCP.


Or how about the cruelty with AISH thats well documented too. They still refuse to re-index AISH to inflation or to return the payment date to the 25th of the month. The pay pment date thing was called out by the Auditor General for being a failed attempt to cook the books too.

As an Autistic adult I don't think anyone is fear mongering in this thread. The UCP has repeatedly shown us who they are.

Interesting. Perhaps Rural voters need to re-evaluate their priorities.

The AISH thing is flat-out stupid. Thats...to me it seems straight-up vindictive.

We're running a budget surplus but they're going to kick and scream over 1-day of interest and bitch about indexing it? That is just nonsense.

Of all the programs you can screw around with to save a couple bucks? These people are clownshoes idiots.

[AFireInside]

Originally Posted by GGG

You can’t directly know that. You are attributing things that were likely on motion that may have been marginally accelerated by the current regime. The Family Doctor shortage has been slowly getting worse for many years.

Covid creating a period of high stress causing people to reassess how money,time, and stress interact created a mass disruption on how people assess work and spend money across every industry. This was occurring with or without Kenny and Smith. Did they make it worse? Yes, could Kenny’s polices have been the final straw, sure, is Kenny’s war on healthcare directly affecting you? Certainly not as much as you believe.

Except we can know it There have been multiple examples of doctors offices posting notices about closing/leaving and specifically mentioning the UCP.

That didn't happen at other times. Sundre, Pincher Creek, Cochrane, Fort McMurray, Three hills etc etc have all posted notices of leaving the practices, closing or leaving the province.

Do we know that every case is due to the UCP, no, but it's clear we have a problem that didn't exist before We personally know of 3 doctors that left the province and several other other young doctors who are currently on the fence about leaving. The younger ones are doing locums etc and haven't committed to staying yet. They aren't going to with someone like Smith in charge and you won't see any notices of them leaving.

[b1crunch]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

If you believe the simple act of conducting a royalty review drove business away you should logically believe that speeches threatening the security of things like healthcare delivery, childcare subsidies, and education quality will certainly drive people from Alberta to provinces not threatening to dismantle these things. Life in Alberta is fine, but it’s not substantially better than anywhere else in Canada that politicians can start messing with the things you get everywhere else in Canada and expect people to stay.

If Alberta doesn’t want to pay doctors and teachers I’m sure other provinces will be happy to.

Not entirely comparable, but I've worked in some very small towns in northern Alberta as a teacher. One of these towns was a population of about 1,200, but it was pretty remote in the sense that is was surrounded entirely by forest with one highway connection and a 60 minute drive to the next community.

Anyways, the region was big in oil and gas and still is. The problem was the O&G companies had a really difficult time attracting educated and skilled workers to the region. There was no shortage of unskilled laborers, but the companies couldn't keep any higher level engineers on site.

The main O&G companies came to the town and basically made it known that none of their educated staff were staying because of a lack of services (education and healthcare) and other opportunities. Instead, the O&G companies were flying the engineers in on a weekly basis from Whitecourt. The school was in town, but it left a lot to be desired and the nearest hospital was 60 minutes down the highway which was really treacherous in the winter.

As a solution the O&G companies made donations to the local school (where I worked) and the town in the hopes that we could institute better programs to help attract their workers to stay. Needless to say it didn't work. I moved on from that school about 9 years ago, but have kept in contact with some of the staff and they are facing the same challenges today.

The point of my story is it highlights that people place quality of services as important to their day-to-day life. I'm not sure this applies on a provincial scale, but it might impact some people who consider any erosions to their services (education and healthcare) as significant. Especially if you have career credentials that can take you anywhere (other provinces) you want to go.

[flamesfever]

Originally Posted by b1crunch

Not that I'm looking to move right now but my wife and I have had conversations with where this province is going. We're not thinking ideologically, but practically. I'm a teacher and I have had a kidney transplant and rely heavily on the health system on a very regular basis. I'm less concerned about my job as a teacher and more concerned about my ability to access the health system as I have been for the last 15 years. Smith has said some very interesting/frightening things about both health and education. Regardless, I'm worried.

However, the bigger issue is my wife's career. She works for the RCMP in the forensics lab, in a highly specialized role. There are only 3 RCMP forensics labs in the country. One in Alberta, one in Vancouver and one in Ottawa. Both the Edmonton and Calgary Police use the Alberta RCMP lab for their work as well. Our concern is the UCP's stance on creating a provincial police force, and the negative impact that would have on my wife's job. There aren't a ton of other forensics options in this country. So we've been discussing what we'd do if the province decided to create its own force (and likely own forensics lab). This could be devastating for her career, and we'd likely be looking at moving to either Vancouver or Ottawa. I'd really rather not, but you never know. Right now we are discussing whether to wait and see what the province does (and she potentially loses her job) or whether she should start applying on openings in Vancouver/Ottawa soonish.

It's frustrating because it's creating a ton of uncertainty. I think that's the biggest issue I'm having with the UCP (and now Smith) is the uncertainty. What will they do and what impact will it have? Do we wait until it's created a negative experience for us or do we move on before? What if my wife loses her job and there aren't any openings at other labs at that time? It's not necessarily easy to get her job, and it took her a long time to get where she is.

I guess, the point is that people have lots of reasons why a government or government policy might make them want to move. And the UCP/Smith can 100% make decisions that impact a person's day-to-day life. It's easy to discount someone else because you can't see how these things would impact your own life.

My wife and I considered moving back to Ontario near our family, and decided not to because the healthcare is so much better in Alberta. Only a small percentage of people in my hometown in Ontario have doctors. A while back a new doctor came into our town and they had a lottery to see who would get him. One summer we had to go to the emergency at a nearby hospital, and it was like a war zone. They had turned off the air conditioner in the waiting room to save money, and people were sitting there sweating with the high heat and humidity.

If we get our own police force, why would we get rid of the crime lab? I realize change can be unsettling, but this province is so bent on attracting talent, that she should probably have no trouble getting a job. Anyway, I believe we should have as much control over our police force as Ontario and Quebec.

In my opinion there will be just as much uncertainty, if not more, with an NDP government. Their tendency to raise the debt and personal taxes, and be influenced by the federal party, are a few things to consider. In the last 50 years I have seen how disastrous NDP premiers can be. Their failing seems to be primarily related to financial matters. However, I have to say that Rachel is probably the best of the bunch.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by AFireInside

Except we can know it There have been multiple examples of doctors offices posting notices about closing/leaving and specifically mentioning the UCP.

That didn't happen at other times. Sundre, Pincher Creek, Cochrane, Fort McMurray, Three hills etc etc have all posted notices of leaving the practices, closing or leaving the province.

Do we know that every case is due to the UCP, no, but it's clear we have a problem that didn't exist before We personally know of 3 doctors that left the province and several other other young doctors who are currently on the fence about leaving. The younger ones are doing locums etc and haven't committed to staying yet. They aren't going to with someone like Smith in charge and you won't see any notices of them leaving.

Sorry, I have to agree with GGG.

You're assuming you're being told the truth as opposed to being given an opportunistic scapegoat.

Like when Hockey players leave a team or City because of 'The Weather.'

What they say and the truth are rarely convergent.

That being said, the UCP are idiots and created a combative atmosphere in this Province between the Government and Healthcare workers, it would be remiss to dismiss them of any responsibility, its just hard to accurately attribute.

Healthcare workers in Alberta are still among the highest paid in the Country, so it cant be all bad.

They can earn more money if they want to go to BC or Ontario and get a slight increase in their earnings coinciding with a massive increase in cost of living.

The UCP would likely be a factor in their decision making process, but its unlikely to have been the deciding factor.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

My wife and I considered moving back to Ontario near our family, and decided not to because the healthcare is so much better in Alberta. Only a small percentage of people in my hometown in Ontario have doctors. A while back a new doctor came into our town and they had a lottery to see who would get him. One summer we had to go to the emergency at a nearby hospital, and it was like a war zone. They had turned off the air conditioner in the waiting room to save money, and people were sitting there sweating with the high heat and humidity.

If we get our own police force, why would we get rid of the crime lab? I realize change can be unsettling, but this province is so bent on attracting talent, that she should probably have no trouble getting a job. Anyway, I believe we should have as much control over our police force as Ontario and Quebec.

In my opinion there will be just as much uncertainty, if not more, with an NDP government. Their tendency to raise the debt and personal taxes, and be influenced by the federal party, are a few things to consider. In the last 50 years I have seen how disastrous NDP premiers can be. Their failing seems to be primarily related to financial matters. However, I have to say that Rachel is probably the best of the bunch.

I for one am astonished that Canada only has 3 Federal crime labs.

And one of them is in Calgary? Where? Why? We have a lab in Vancouver and one in Calgary and then presumably that Ottawa lab must be busier than hell dealing with like half the Country.

[b1crunch]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

My wife and I considered moving back to Ontario near our family, and decided not to because the healthcare is so much better in Alberta. Only a small percentage of people in my hometown in Ontario have doctors. A while back a new doctor came into our town and they had a lottery to see who would get him. One summer we had to go to the emergency at a nearby hospital, and it was like a war zone. They had turned off the air conditioner in the waiting room to save money, and people were sitting there sweating with the high heat and humidity.

If we get our own police force, why would we get rid of the crime lab? I realize change can be unsettling, but this province is so bent on attracting talent, that she should probably have no trouble getting a job. Anyway, I believe we should have as much control over our police force as Ontario and Quebec.

In my opinion there will be just as much uncertainty, if not more, with an NDP government. Their tendency to raise the debt and personal taxes, and be influenced by the federal party, are a few things to consider. In the last 50 years I have seen how disastrous NDP premiers can be. Their failing seems to be primarily related to financial matters. However, I have to say that Rachel is probably the best of the bunch.

I have no illusions that healthcare will be better in other provinces, but as something I access a lot, I'm concerned about it eroding or becoming harder to access.

I'm certain Alberta might open its own forensics lab, if they did create their own force, but there are no guarantees my wife would get a job, or where the lab would be located, so we may have to move within Alberta anyways. Also, there's been talk in the forensics field that Alberta might do away with a forensics lab altogether and instead use private sector labs. Some of those labs might be in Alberta and others might be in other provinces or in the United States. There's a lot up in the air. My wife tends to think the province would take the private lab option because opening, certifying and running your own forensics lab is difficult and takes time. It just easier and faster to privatize it.

Would the Alberta lab pay her the same, or have the same pension/benefits? She has a lot of uncertainty about it. If she stayed with the RCMP (we moved to Vancouver or Ottawa) then she'd have some guarantees for her employment, her benefits, her seniority and access to promotions.

Again, it all comes down to uncertainty for us. I'm also fully aware the NDP (or any government for that matter) would create uncertainty for different professions. This is just our story.

[b1crunch]

Originally Posted by Locke

I for one am astonished that Canada only has 3 Federal crime labs.

And one of them is in Calgary? Where? Why? We have a lab in Vancouver and one in Calgary and then presumably that Ottawa lab must be busier than hell dealing with like half the Country.

It's actually located in Edmonton (E=NG). The Edmonton lab does all of Alberta, all of Sask and sections of the Territories. The Ottawa lab is MUCH bigger and employs many more people.

Alberta basically has its own lab because the PC provincial governments of the early 2000's fought for it and funded it (partially anyways). Presumably because they wanted faster service for Alberta, plus Edmonton and Calgary Police needed access to services. Allison Redford continued the funding for it, but it can be cancelled at anytime (as far as I know).

[Locke]

Originally Posted by b1crunch

I have no illusions that healthcare will be better in other provinces, but as something I access a lot, I'm concerned about it eroding or becoming harder to access.

I'm certain Alberta might open its own forensics lab, if they did create their own force, but there are no guarantees my wife would get a job, or where the lab would be located, so we may have to move within Alberta anyways. Also, there's been talk in the forensics field that Alberta might do away with a forensics lab altogether and instead use private sector labs. Some of those labs might be in Alberta and others might be in other provinces or in the United States. There's a lot up in the air. My wife tends to think the province would take the private lab option because opening, certifying and running your own forensics lab is difficult.

Would the Alberta lab pay her the same, or have the same pension/benefits? She has a lot of uncertainty about it. If she stayed with the RCMP (we moved to Vancouver or Ottawa) then she'd have some guarantees for her employment, her benefits, her seniority and access to promotions.

Again, it all comes down to uncertainty for us. I'm also fully aware the NDP (or any government for that matter) would create uncertainty for different professions. This is just our story.

I can understand the anxiety concerning the uncertainty, these are crazy times.

But man...the likelihood of Alberta establishing its own Police force and Forensics labs etc. seems like a huge load of BS.

That seems more like Kenney stroking off his own ego, I dont consider that or Alberta managing its own pensions as even remotely credible ideas.

I wouldnt let that crap keep me up at night. Those are Politicians' delusions of grandeur and fever dreams.

Healthcare concerns? Those I would deem as credible.

As far as I'm concerned Danielle Smith isnt qualified enough to walk my dog much less lead this Province, the last thing I want her input on is healthcare.

She has a lot of ideas but most of those come across about as rational as the ideas of a Hippy on an acid trip. Not grounded in reality.

[b1crunch]

Originally Posted by Locke

I can understand the anxiety concerning the uncertainty, these are crazy times.

But man...the likelihood of Alberta establishing its own Police force and Forensics labs etc. seems like a huge load of BS.

That seems more like Kenney stroking off his own ego, I dont consider that or Alberta managing its own pensions as even remotely credible ideas.

I wouldnt let that crap keep me up at night. Those are Politicians' delusions of grandeur and fever dreams.

Healthcare concerns? Those I would deem as credible.

As far as I'm concerned Danielle Smith isnt qualified enough to walk my dog much less lead this Province, the last thing I want her input on is healthcare.

She has a lot of ideas but most of those come across about as rational as the ideas of a Hippy on an acid trip. Not grounded in reality.

Agreed. We have lots of friends in the RCMP (for obvious reasons) and they all think that if the province wanted to go ahead with its own police force or lab it would take at least a decade. The logistics of transitioning everything would be huge.

It doesn't keep us up at night, but its definitely in the back of our minds and we've discussed that a move might be necessary one day. The May 2023 election will be interesting.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

If you believe the simple act of conducting a royalty review drove business away you should logically believe that speeches threatening the security of things like healthcare delivery, childcare subsidies, and education quality will certainly drive people from Alberta to provinces not threatening to dismantle these things. Life in Alberta is fine, but it’s not substantially better than anywhere else in Canada that politicians can start messing with the things you get everywhere else in Canada and expect people to stay.

If Alberta doesn’t want to pay doctors and teachers I’m sure other provinces will be happy to.

Well I’ve been arguing that the royalty review had minimal affect relative to the macro conditions at the time for 6 years or so now. It is an excellent comparison Macro conditions govern the broad based decision making with small affects at the margins being attributable government policy and uncertainty.

[Jbo]

Danielle Smith took over following an internal party leadership review while we are only 7 months from an election. What I would like to know is what givens this loon the authority to start things like “taking aim” at AHS or along comments like “we will never have health restrictions again” GTFO of here.

Put your agenda to the people and call an election you coward.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by GGG

Well I’ve been arguing that the royalty review had minimal affect relative to the macro conditions at the time for 6 years or so now. It is an excellent comparison Macro conditions govern the broad based decision making with small affects at the margins being attributable government policy and uncertainty.

Sure, but my point is that if you believe one, it makes no logical sense not to believe the other.

But I sense that we’re seeing the opposite.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by b1crunch

Agreed. We have lots of friends in the RCMP (for obvious reasons) and they all think that if the province wanted to go ahead with its own police force or lab it would take at least a decade. The logistics of transitioning everything would be huge.

It doesn't keep us up at night, but its definitely in the back of our minds and we've discussed that a move might be necessary one day. The May 2023 election will be interesting.

If you're at least in your 30s the likelihood of that potentially affecting you at all ever is essentially nil.

Besides, sorry guys, but depending on your ages and lengths of service you're probably both well bonded by the 'Golden Handcuffs.' You ain't going anywhere for a while.

If anything you should probably be worshipping at Smith's feet. If she is insane enough to somehow plow through with Alberta's own Police force and we maintain our own Forensics lab your wife's name is probably going to be near the very top of a very short list of 'indispensable people' and by that point you're not going to care about Albertan Universal Health Care because she's going to get paid enough Government Graft that you can hop on down to Mexico and get a new kidney whenever you feel like it.

Worship the Chaos.

In the meantime however we really, really, really need to make sure none of that happens.

[flamesfever]

I don't know whether it's been said, but it was the Conservative Government under Premier Alison Redford that raised the AISH by $400. from $1158. to $1558. Should it be indexed? I would agree it should be.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

I don't know whether it's been said, but it was the Conservative Government under Premier Alison Redford that raised the AISH by $400. from $1158. to $1558. Should it be indexed? I would agree it should be.

I dont really see why thats important, but it should be indexed.

I mean, you cant have a civil conversation at this juncture without 'Inflation' being mentioned in some capacity.

People on AISH are on a fixed income and the purchasing power of that income is being pissed away by the day.

And its not like they have the casual luxury of easily supplementing that income. So unless the plan is to starve these people to death to save some cash then they'd best get on it.