Israel declares war on Hamas

[tkflames]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Except that it was an attack without a declaration of war, which could be defined as an illegal terror attack.


Don't know why I put this here, but whatever.

Sorry...didn't mean to downplay Pearl Harbour. Just saying that when you take granny's and kids hostage from their home after slaughtering their family, it's worse than a military hitting another's military target.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

The far right in U.S. doesn't really have any relationship with Catholicism. I think you mean evangelical protestants.

That's what I meant. I couldn't come up with the right religious group.

[FlameOn]

Hamas claims it is willing to exchange all the hostages it holds for the release of over 9,000 Hamas terrorists held in Israeli custody, including those involved in the Oct 7th attack. Doesn't seem like a good idea for Israel to entertain this tho. Hamas has not provided any evidence of the hostages' are still alive since they were paraded through the streets along with the dead Israeli civilian. Hamas still hasn't 'found' the Russian hostages they pledged to release. Also, a previous prisoner exchange involving 5,000 militants in return for IDF soldier hostage Gilad Shalit included Hamas leaders responsible for the murders of multiple Palestinians and linked to the Oct 7th attack.

https://www.barrons.com/news/hamas-d...tages-5952579f

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by FlameOn

Hamas claims it is willing to exchange all the hostages it holds for the release of over 9,000 Hamas terrorists held in Israeli custody, including those involved in the Oct 7th attack. Doesn't seem like a good idea for Israel to entertain this tho. Hamas has not provided any evidence of the hostages' are still alive since they were paraded through the streets along with the dead Israeli civilian. Hamas still hasn't 'found' the Russian hostages they pledged to release. Also, a previous prisoner exchange involving 5,000 militants in return for IDF soldier hostage Gilad Shalit included Hamas leaders responsible for the murders of multiple Palestinians and linked to the Oct 7th attack.

https://www.barrons.com/news/hamas-d...tages-5952579f

Israel is never going to agree to this. Unless they return the Hamas members in pieces.



I think a cease fire of any type is going to be agreed upon unless it involves the unconditional release of hostages as well as an accounting for the missing and some kind of removal of Hamas from the Gaza equation.


Too many times to Hamas the term ceasefire means, we're going to re arm and recruit and come back in a few months.


I wonder why there's not a bigger push to sanction Qatar for protecting the leaders of Hamas and their assets?

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I wonder why there's not a bigger push to sanction Qatar for protecting the leaders of Hamas and their assets?

There is an effort. US is leaning on the Qataris' to expel Hamas leadership.

Israel isn't recognized by Qatar, and likely the Israelis don't want to do anything that might further disrupt their efforts to normalized relationship with the rest of the Sunni royal dynastic leaders like the Saudis.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle...eli%20blockade.

[WCW Nitro]

Meanwhile, over 100 Palestinians have died in the West Bank due to Israeli attacks. But remember, Israel is just fighting Hamas.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.alja...nt-and-attacks

Since the Israeli offensive began on the Gaza Strip on October 7, the violence against Palestinians in the occupied West Bank has also escalated.

At least 105 Palestinians have been killed, and another 1,550 arrested in a crackdown by Israeli forces. Palestinian cities and villages have been cut off from one another through the Israeli closures and the threat of settler attacks, resulting in a near-complete commercial standstill and severe restrictions on movement.

[FlamesAddiction]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1718689335988375897

https://twitter.com/user/status/1718683535794389018

“we came for the jews — to kill them with a knife and shoot them,” a rioter was quoted as saying.

The plane from tel aviv was redirected to a nearby airport, but a mob also started gathering there, according to israel’s channel 12. The flight crew subsequently ordered the doors of the aircraft to be locked, as russian security forces declared the tarmac a closed area.

“a limited number of israelis and jews are currently isolated and under guard at the airport,” israel’s kan public broadcaster quoted a security source in jerusalem as saying.

“we are working on having them depart on a connection flight to moscow once conditions allow it,” added the official.

https://nationalpost.com/news/world/...ael-russia-mob

[burn_this_city]

Find it hard to believe there is no police in Putin's police state, they bust the skulls of someone criticizing the war, yet people can run onto the tarmac or flood the airport. This is a distraction after sending all these Caucasus people to the meat grinder.

Glad Pointman left Russia now that the pogroms are starting again.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Very furtunate the plane hadn't unloaded yet. If those passengers were already in the arrivals area, this would have been a massive slaughter.

[Delthefunky]

nm

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Find it hard to believe there is no police in Putin's police state

Everyone got sent to Ukraine, anyone with a few BTRs and black market tanks can march on Moscow these days.

[activeStick]

Psycho

https://twitter.com/user/status/1718310094713110982

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

https://twitter.com/user/status/1718689335988375897

https://twitter.com/user/status/1718683535794389018


https://nationalpost.com/news/world/...ael-russia-mob

Spokesman for Putin and Dagestan blame Ukraine for organizing the Palestinian anti-Israeli mob/pogrom of the Dagestan airport. Sure this BS is for domestic consumption, but lol

https://p.dw.com/p/4YBuh

Al Jazeera is a Qatari state-owned media outlet and Qatar has sheltered Hamas senior leadership for decades. Qatar through Al Jazeera has been stoking the conflict and still directly quotes a lot of Hamas claims/statements as fact without verification or disclaimer. US is now asking the Qatari government to "moderate" their content/rhetoric.
https://www.theguardian.com/media/20...der%20conflict.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by FlameOn

Al Jazeera is a Qatari state-owned media outlet and Qatar has sheltered Hamas senior leadership for decades. Qatar through Al Jazeera has been stoking the conflict and still directly quotes a lot of Hamas claims/statements as fact without verification or disclaimer. US is now asking the Qatari government to "moderate" their content/rhetoric.
https://www.theguardian.com/media/20...der%20conflict.

Have to jump on this characterization of Al Jazeera as being a mouthpiece for the Qatar government and for Hamas. This is not accurate as Al Jazeera maintains its editorial independence not unlike PBS/NPR maintain their editorial independence from the United States government who provides a great deal of funding to the media organization. Al Jazeera gets a bad rap because it presents a side of the many conflicts that most people don't want to see. They don't want to see the actual damage being done of the ground, they prefer their war to be clean and sanitized like the Americans presented in 1991's Desert Storm.

Al Jazeera is one of the few outlets that will actually follow through on these major engagements and put their reporters on the ground to show the ugliness of war. It is why they are so effective in showing what is really happening, much to the chagrin of the propaganda outlets supporting the various sides of the wars. It is also why Al Jazeera has lost so many reporters as they become targets of interest in attempts to silence the flow of information that may change public opinion. It's exactly why the US is pushing hard to get Al Jazeera to back off on their coverage, so Israel won't look bad as they invade Palestinian held lands. Much easier to garner support when video of your incursion and the destruction and bodies are not broadcast for all to see (which the Israelis and Americans have done endlessly to garner support for the actions they are now taking).

Be critical of Qatar and their willingness to provide safe harbor to Hamas leaders, but don't paint Al Jazeera with the same brush. They are well respected for their reporting for good reason, they do it right and present the unvarnished facts of what is happening on the ground, much to their reporter's peril. It is not like they are Fox News or The Telegraph and promote propaganda packaged by their ideological benefactors. Al Jazeera does real journalism and is damn good at it.

[blankall]

It looks like Israel was successful in freeing a hostage using military raids:

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-...-east-67258466

Meanwhile, another hostage was confirmed dead prior to being taken away and Hamas had taken back deceased hostages into Gaza:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67260093

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Have to jump on this characterization of Al Jazeera as being a mouthpiece for the Qatar government and for Hamas. This is not accurate as Al Jazeera maintains its editorial independence not unlike PBS/NPR maintain their editorial independence from the United States government who provides a great deal of funding to the media organization. Al Jazeera gets a bad rap because it presents a side of the many conflicts that most people don't want to see. They don't want to see the actual damage being done of the ground, they prefer their war to be clean and sanitized like the Americans presented in 1991's Desert Storm.

Al Jazeera is one of the few outlets that will actually follow through on these major engagements and put their reporters on the ground to show the ugliness of war. It is why they are so effective in showing what is really happening, much to the chagrin of the propaganda outlets supporting the various sides of the wars. It is also why Al Jazeera has lost so many reporters as they become targets of interest in attempts to silence the flow of information that may change public opinion. It's exactly why the US is pushing hard to get Al Jazeera to back off on their coverage, so Israel won't look bad as they invade Palestinian held lands. Much easier to garner support when video of your incursion and the destruction and bodies are not broadcast for all to see (which the Israelis and Americans have done endlessly to garner support for the actions they are now taking).

Be critical of Qatar and their willingness to provide safe harbor to Hamas leaders, but don't paint Al Jazeera with the same brush. They are well respected for their reporting for good reason, they do it right and present the unvarnished facts of what is happening on the ground, much to their reporter's peril. It is not like they are Fox News or The Telegraph and promote propaganda packaged by their ideological benefactors. Al Jazeera does real journalism and is damn good at it.

I would hardly call them unbiased or respected for good reporting. There’s the current issue where when the Al-Ahli hospital incident happened they reported destruction of the hospital, without verification, and the number of deaths directly from the Gaza Health Ministry, insisting that over 500 confirmed dead, when the Gaza Health Ministry is controlled by Hamas, and also attributed that to Israeli missile attack. They are now saying it’s an Iron Dome missile from their own investigative unit and are insisting on an ICC investigation into the matter, when basically multiple news organizations, intelligence services, and OSINT have all said it was Islamic Jihad rocket misfire.
https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2...-arab-hospital

On the matter of independence. AJ has started off as a way Qatar to project political influence onto the Arab world and is wholly funded and receives support directly from the Qatari government
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs...64884918812221
Multiple reporters have resigned in the past from Al-Jazeera citing pressure from the head office and lack of journalistic independence, including incidents where head office told them to just slant things towards the Muslim Brotherhood
http://www.spiegel.de/international/...-a-883343.html
https://www.npr.org/2013/07/10/20082...egypt-coverage
Leaked diplomatic cables have claimed that Al Jazeera has been manipulated when required by the Qatari government
https://www.theguardian.com/world/us...cuments/214776

On the matter of them being biased. They have referred to Palestinian casualties or the side that aligns most with Qatari interests as “martyrs” on multiple occasions.
https://web.archive.org/web/20120829....com/node/4525
https://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/18/m...pagewanted=all
They’ve celebrated a Lebanese terrorist convicted of killing four Israeli’s as a “pan-Arab” hero, and even threw the guy a birthday party
http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/1818.htm
http://www.meforum.org/3147/al-jazeera

They’ve put out documentaries in the past minimizing or completely denying the Holocaust happened
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-48335169

Either AJ’s editorial board has a history of incompetent journalistic and editorial integrity/oversight, or they are quite strongly biased towards Qatari interests with a history of anti-Israeli bias, you choose.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by blankall

Meanwhile, another hostage was confirmed dead prior to being taken away and Hamas had taken back deceased hostages into Gaza:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67260093

I don't think there was ever really any hope that she was alive, but at least the family has closure on it. Still really gross that they took her half naked body back into Gaza.

I suspect a lot of the 230 hostages were dead within hours of being taken. The videos showing motionless "hostages" being paraded around Gaza and being beaten with sticks by civilians do not give me much hope that the majority are alive. There was one video that showed 4 people getting taken into a vehicle as hostages, but then a follow-up video that showed them dead and dumped not too far from where they were taken.

There is also the issue that the terrorists seemed to distribute the hostages to different groups in Gaza, and now Hamas doesn't even know where some of them are.

[greyshep]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I don't think there was ever really any hope that she was alive, but at least the family has closure on it. Still really gross that they took her half naked body back into Gaza.

I suspect a lot of the 230 hostages were dead within hours of being taken. The videos showing motionless "hostages" being paraded around Gaza and being beaten with sticks by civilians do not give me much hope that the majority are alive. There was one video that showed 4 people getting taken into a vehicle as hostages, but then a follow-up video that showed them dead and dumped not too far from where they were taken.

There is also the issue that the terrorists seemed to distribute the hostages to different groups in Gaza, and now Hamas doesn't even know where some of them are.

That video is disgusting watching them chant God is great while onlookers were spitting on her and hitting her motionless body. Absolute depravity on display.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by FlameOn

I would hardly call them unbiased or respected for good reporting.

Says someone with an obvious bias towards one side of this "war." Al Jazeera is very well respected in media circles and those who actually track journalistic enterprise. They have been for decades. Their biggest problem is they are hyper-critical of Israel, which is actually in line with their audience, so no different than any of the Western media who freely publish pro-Israel propaganda without a second's thought, just the opposite end of the spectrum. The problem YOU have with Al Jazeera is they don't comply with your worldview so you run them down for that rather than actually following the coverage.

Either AJ’s editorial board has a history of incompetent journalistic and editorial integrity/oversight, or they are quite strongly biased towards Qatari interests with a history of anti-Israeli bias, you choose.

Nice constructing of a strawman and a false dichotomy. Any other dishonest rhetorical games you want to play? Al Jazeera is representative of the market they serve and frames things in the cultural context of their consumer (Arab nations), not unlike how all Western media behaves for their audiences. Doesn't change the rules of engagement they follow and adhere to actual journalistic standards.

Have to laugh at the comment about the whole hospital angle after the NY Times blew that issue out of the water showing evidence that contradicts what has become the "accepted" narrative, even though the narrative is wrong. Funny how that article was quickly swept under the rug. The Times and Al Jazeera are a lot closer on that issue than you'd be comfortable admitting to.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by blankall

Meanwhile, another hostage was confirmed dead prior to being taken away and Hamas had taken back deceased hostages into Gaza:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67260093

WTF, Shani Louk was identified thru DNA after finding a fragment of her skull