2023 NFL Season Thread

[Sainters7]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Yeah I wonder if Tomlin has gone as far as he can with this group. It's getting harder and harder for coaches to get their message to players, and it's been 6 seasons since the Steelers had anything more than a playoff appearance so the message might not be working with this group anymore.

With Dennis Allen set to almost certainly be fired after this season, I've already been thinking this. But I have a feeling he may choose elsewhere. A man can dream, though..

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Sainters7

With Dennis Allen set to almost certainly be fired after this season, I've already been thinking this. But I have a feeling he may choose elsewhere. A man can dream, though..

The Saints have a worse situation than the Steelers, IMO, so not sure why he'd want to go there (other than it's a terrible division). Aging team, bad overpaid QB, brutal cap situation, and very little draft capital.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Saints might be best off keeping Allen for next year and going nuclear tank to get their cap situation in order for the long term. But we all know how Loomis does, so he'll probably do the can kick again so they're projected to be $1 billion over the cap in 2026.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Saints might be best off keeping Allen for next year and going nuclear tank to get their cap situation in order for the long term. But we all know how Loomis does, so he'll probably do the can kick again so they're are projected to be $1 billion over the cap in 2026.

The smart thing might be to can Loomis so he can't keep doing that, force the new GM to ride out one more year with Allen, and then let him bring in his own staff in 2025. Try to get as many picks as you can for guys like Maye, Mathieu, Jordan, and Lattimore.

The crappy thing for the Saints is that they'd have to designate most of those guys as June 1st trades or cuts, so they won't be able to do anything in FA, but that might be for the best anyways.

Definitely time to rip the band-aid off, IMO.

[Senator Clay Davis]

That's why I am glad the Bucs did that this year with the Brady dead money. They could have conned themselves into thinking they could win that horrible division again and made attempts to sign guys last summer, but they took their medicine, Bowles is surely getting fired, and the new guy comes in with cap space.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

If Tomlin somehow became available I’d hope any team I support would fire whomever the coaches was and hire him immediately. Steeler fan is going to learn a difficult lesson when he’s gone

Maybe it's a bit like Andy Reid in Philly. Eagle fans thought he was the dumbest coach in history. I was ecstatic that the Chiefs were able to get him. Tomlin has been more successful than Reid in Philly, but he also inherited a Superboel Championship team and had his best success 10 years ago and longer.

I think Steelers fans still like and respect Tomlin, but after this many years maybe both sides need a change. If he's out there, chances are he'll be working as soon as he wants to. But that's an organization that does stay away from change so they won't want to replace Tomlin with a Chip Kelly. It would need to be Tomlin saying he wants to step away too.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Maybe it's a bit like Andy Reid in Philly. Eagle fans thought he was the dumbest coach in history. I was ecstatic that the Chiefs were able to get him. Tomlin has been more successful than Reid in Philly, but he also inherited a Superboel Championship team and had his best success 10 years ago and longer.

Andy the coach was fine (minus the clock-management gaffes). Andy the GM was god-awful. By the end of his tenure, he was doing dumb #### like making the offensive line coach his DC and selecting 28 year-old firefighters in the 1st round of the draft.

The Chiefs benefit from having Veach as GM as much as they do Andy as HC.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Maybe it's a bit like Andy Reid in Philly. Eagle fans thought he was the dumbest coach in history. I was ecstatic that the Chiefs were able to get him. Tomlin has been more successful than Reid in Philly, but he also inherited a Superboel Championship team and had his best success 10 years ago and longer.

I think Steelers fans still like and respect Tomlin, but after this many years maybe both sides need a change. If he's out there, chances are he'll be working as soon as he wants to. But that's an organization that does stay away from change so they won't want to replace Tomlin with a Chip Kelly. It would need to be Tomlin saying he wants to step away too.

I see it like Tony Dungy in Tampa a little bit.

[Senator Clay Davis]

It's more like Gruden in Tampa. Inherited a SB caliber team, won quick, did nothing afterwards.

[puffnstuff]

The fact the Steelers have had only 3 HCs since 1969 is amazing

Also tells me they would be very cautious in replacing Tomlin

[KelVarnsen]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Andy the coach was fine (minus the clock-management gaffes). Andy the GM was god-awful. By the end of his tenure, he was doing dumb #### like making the offensive line coach his DC and selecting 28 year-old firefighters in the 1st round of the draft.

The Chiefs benefit from having Veach as GM as much as they do Andy as HC.

Without Mahomes who knows how well Reid looks in KC as well.

His time in Philly needed to end. For both the team and him.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by KelVarnsen

Without Mahomes who knows how well Reid looks in KC as well.

His time in Philly needed to end. For both the team and him.

Well he saw how he looked without Mahomes during the Alex Smith days.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Well he saw how he looked without Mahomes during the Alex Smith days.

And they were still winning the AFC West. Hands down one of the top 5 all time best coaches ever and second to only Walsh as best offensive genius ever.

[Sainters7]

Originally Posted by rubecube

The smart thing might be to can Loomis so he can't keep doing that, force the new GM to ride out one more year with Allen, and then let him bring in his own staff in 2025. Try to get as many picks as you can for guys like Maye, Mathieu, Jordan, and Lattimore.



The crappy thing for the Saints is that they'd have to designate most of those guys as June 1st trades or cuts, so they won't be able to do anything in FA, but that might be for the best anyways.



Definitely time to rip the band-aid off, IMO.

And for better or worse, that's not really their M.O. anyways. I've mentioned it before, but the Saints and Flames front office have a lot in common when it comes to how they operate unfortunately: always be "competitive", and just try to make the playoffs.

Like the Flames, I don't think Loomis/Benson have the stones to do a complete rebuild. They'd have the 10th pick if the season ended today, I could more likely see them trying to pull a Carolina and move up from there. Loomis has a history of being aggressive in the draft for someone he likes. Louisiana is understandably obsessed with Jayden Daniels at the moment, I wonder if he'd try something like that.

I'd be shocked if Allen is retained after this season if they miss the playoffs, which seems likely. Especially the way his D has regressed. They get worse every week.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

It's more like Gruden in Tampa. Inherited a SB caliber team, won quick, did nothing afterwards.

Did nothing is probably a bit harsh.

They haven't won the Super Bowl but in the 15 seasons since they have never finished below .500, made the playoffs 8 times, and won the division 5 times, made 2 AFC championship games and 1 more Super Bowl appearance.

Some Franchises would kill for that type of performance over a 15 year span.

Not amazing but for not really bottoming out, and having a ton of star power they seem to do alright.

Might be time for a change because sometimes things just need a change after 17 seasons but I don't think hes done nothing.

[devo22]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

Steeler fan is going to learn a difficult lesson when he’s gone

that may very well be, but I just think it's time. I have a lot of respect for Tomlin and I think it's crazy for people to suggest he "did nothing". I am sure a lot of teams would line up for him if he did become available, and rightly so. But as for Pittsburgh, I think this thing has run its course and it's time to move on. And after 17 years, I think that's okay.

And for all his accomplishments, he certainly has his warts too. In-game management has been spotty, not to mention his coaching staff decisions ... it's no surprise to me that he doesn't have something that even resembles a coaching tree. And at some point, you just have to acknowledge this thing is going nowhere. Not having a losing season is nice and all, but being stuck in perennial mediocrity is not.

QB situation is also on him (and Kevin Colbert). Steelers have drafted extremely well in other areas, but they have completely fumbled the most important position in football. They should have proactively prepared for Roethlisbergers decline and retirement, instead you end up with Kenny frigging Pickett. Easily set the franchise back for a few years.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Sainters7

And for better or worse, that's not really their M.O. anyways. I've mentioned it before, but the Saints and Flames front office have a lot in common when it comes to how they operate unfortunately: always be "competitive", and just try to make the playoffs.

Like the Flames, I don't think Loomis/Benson have the stones to do a complete rebuild. They'd have the 10th pick if the season ended today, I could more likely see them trying to pull a Carolina and move up from there. Loomis has a history of being aggressive in the draft for someone he likes. Louisiana is understandably obsessed with Jayden Daniels at the moment, I wonder if he'd try something like that.

I'd be shocked if Allen is retained after this season if they miss the playoffs, which seems likely. Especially the way his D has regressed. They get worse every week.

Yeah the defense hasn't been as good of late. They still have a chance at the division though but Carr will have to get healthy and it looks like they may start him again this weekend which seems silly seeing it's a game they should win with even Winston starting. Given Carr's had mutiple concussions over the past month you would think they would sit him for a week at least.

[Sainters7]

Yeah 3rd time in 4 weeks he's in concussion protocol, not to mention all the other injuries he's incurred in that time. He needs to just rest for a week or two, plus let the narrative cool down a little, given the toxic environment at the Superdome with the booing fans last weekend.

With Carolina and the Giants on tap, perhaps he's worried Jameis will play well and take the starting job for him. But it seems rushed and unnecessary, he's going to get himself killed behind that OL.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Well he saw how he looked without Mahomes during the Alex Smith days.

So you think taking over a team that went 2-14 and proceeding to win 11, 9, 11, 12, and 10 games with a slightly above average QB was poor? They only won a single playoff game in that span, but it's not like sny other coach the Chiefs had was able to do that either over 25 years.

He did have to reshape the roster during that time and I think he should get some credit for Mahomes developing into what he has become. The Chiefs were mocked pretty hard by talking heads for moving up to waste a pick on a JaMarcus Russell like arm talent who would not play right away.

It was time for him to leave Philly when they let him go. Him and the Eagles both needed change at that time. Andy himself may have realized his errors in getting too involved in personell and his out of the box coaching hires like Juan Castillo. But it did make one mediocre franchise considerably better when they got him. Neither Chuck Knoll or Bill Cowher coached in the NFL again after leaving the Steelers. Tomlin might, so Pittsburgh might see that as an issue.

[KelVarnsen]

Panthers are so very bad