If any religious here are curious as to how we non religious find deep and personal meaning in our existence. Its a great video that really reminded me of the awe and powerful meaning that I experienced when pondering our cosmos.
Its not a hate video for religion, more of a mind blowing wtf magnets that our universe is and how that understanding is such a massively humbling experience when you deeply realize this.
__________________ Allskonar fyrir Aumingja!!
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As a semirelated sidenote, my wife just left the evangelic-lutheran state church here in Finland at the age of 32, actually to my great surprise, since we really haven't discussed the topic much.
There's a bit of a boom of people leaving the church here in Finland due to recent attention brought on the churches intolerance of sexual minorities, but that was not her reason, although possibly a contributing factor.
She's a biochemist. She went to church with her grandmother. The priest talked about the genesis, and she realized that not only does she not believe that old story, as a scientist she can't really support spreading that story, which she considers nonsense.
(I've never been religious. I'd call myself an atheist if that didn't carry the implication that religion is such a big deal I'm supposed to define myself through it, no matter what.)
Its similar in Iceland, we´re going to finally separate church and state, finally no state church and no more priests coming to schools to talk to children about god.
You're doing the same thing with your post, Calgaryborn. You show no respect for what T@T stands for and belittle him for what he believes.
He started doing that right from the start here is his opening 3 paragraphs
"Wow! This Sam Harris guy sure is an idiot. He must be the Benny Hinn of the atheists: He says what people want to hear and he says it in a most colourful way(i.e. the graph). Truth be damned! What I find most amusing is how many of his disciples on here have been sticking their chests out and proclaiming the superiority of their science and reason to christianity. Really where is your science and reason? Sam Harris used none in developing his graph and you all blindly believed him without an ounce of critical thinking.
When I first seen this thread I rolled my eyes: Another thread taking pot shots at christianity. You would think that you guys would get tired of regurgitating the same old arguments and go off and live your godless lives. But obviously your faith in a godless universe needs to constantly be reinforced by belittling and in your weak minds destroying the pillars of christian orthodoxy.
Perhaps I'm being a little too hard on you guys. I mean I do have some advantages; I actually have read the bible and studied it from time to time. Also, I do have some interest in religious history. What do you guys got? An ardent faith in a godless universe? Blind devotion to your religious leaders such as Sam Harris or Dawkins?"
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Based upon your knowledge I suspect you know that all those religions also have missionaries. Each one is trying to convert people to what they think is the truth and thus the information of all the different religions is being spread and people will make the choices they make.
Just curious what made you stop believing and how long were you a believer before you stopped?
I disagree based upon what I've heard from people and what little research I've done. I don't have anything else to give you on this that's going to change your mind clearly, but I also will not change my mind because based upon what I've seen God do in my life an the lives of people around me I have faith that what I believe is right.
Well hopefully one day you will get an answer you will find satisfactory.
There is the problem. Do a LOT more research and quit getting your answers from those who lead your church or have done little research themselves.
Faith is not proof.
You're doing the same thing with your post, Calgaryborn. You show no respect for what T@T stands for and belittle him for what he believes.
First of all I have no respect for what T@T stands for. I think I make that very clear. It is a parasitical belief system. It derives all its energy from attacking other faiths.
Secondly, I was responding to a direct question he asked me. My post was hardly a drive by. He wanted to know what he doesn't understand.
He started doing that right from the start here is his opening 3 paragraphs
"Wow! This Sam Harris guy sure is an idiot. He must be the Benny Hinn of the atheists: He says what people want to hear and he says it in a most colourful way(i.e. the graph). Truth be damned! What I find most amusing is how many of his disciples on here have been sticking their chests out and proclaiming the superiority of their science and reason to christianity. Really where is your science and reason? Sam Harris used none in developing his graph and you all blindly believed him without an ounce of critical thinking.
When I first seen this thread I rolled my eyes: Another thread taking pot shots at christianity. You would think that you guys would get tired of regurgitating the same old arguments and go off and live your godless lives. But obviously your faith in a godless universe needs to constantly be reinforced by belittling and in your weak minds destroying the pillars of christian orthodoxy.
Perhaps I'm being a little too hard on you guys. I mean I do have some advantages; I actually have read the bible and studied it from time to time. Also, I do have some interest in religious history. What do you guys got? An ardent faith in a godless universe? Blind devotion to your religious leaders such as Sam Harris or Dawkins?"
Yes and my post there stands as the only one in this entire thread who actually looked as the substance of the graph that this thread was suppose to be about. You left out the rest of my post where I expose the lack of scholarship behind the graph and pondered the motivation for putting such a thing together. It wasn't a desire for truth.
Both Harris' intelligence had been put on the table and the mantra of "science and reason" before I posted. I merely opined on the first and refuted the second.
There is the problem. Do a LOT more research and quit getting your answers from those who lead your church or have done little research themselves.
Faith is not proof.
Please don't presume to know my life and tell me what I should be doing. I never told you what to do. I turned away from my faith once before and became miserable and knew there was something missing. When I came back to God I knew I found what I was missing. My own personal experience is a big deal to me and a LOT more research isn't going to change that.
Just because I do more research doesn't mean I'm going to come to the same answer as you have (or want me to).
Please don't presume to know my life and tell me what I should be doing. I never told you what to do. I turned away from my faith once before and became miserable and knew there was something missing. When I came back to God I knew I found what I was missing. My own personal experience is a big deal to me and a LOT more research isn't going to change that.
Just because I do more research doesn't mean I'm going to come to the same answer as you have (or want me to).
Its always tough to leave a "faith" after early indoctrination. (Remember we are all born atheists, we are taught our particular brand of theism by our parents and grandparents). I equate it to quitting smoking, or recovering from any other addiction. They surround you at all times, create an atmosphere you become used to, and when you try breaking free from it you become isolated from what you felt familiar with.
Your right I dont presume to know "your life", but I do know and understand the magnetic draw of religion.
Most atheists have been there themselves.
First of all I have no respect for what T@T stands for. I think I make that very clear. It is a parasitical belief system. It derives all its energy from attacking other faiths.
Secondly, I was responding to a direct question he asked me. My post was hardly a drive by. He wanted to know what he doesn't understand.
They surround you at all times, create an atmosphere you become used to, and when you try breaking free from it you become isolated from what you felt familiar with.
.
Sounds like a cult. Just saying.
You have to have "faith" to believe in the aspects of any religion. Otherwise, it all sounds pretty idiotic. If someone says they rely on "faith" then I don't bother them. It's the ones who try to make some sort of fact-based argument surrounding religious mumbo-jumbo that can get an agnostic or an atheist going.
Cowperson
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You have to have "faith" to believe in the aspects of any religion. Otherwise, it all sounds pretty idiotic. If someone says they rely on "faith" then I don't bother them. It's the ones who try to make some sort of fact-based argument surrounding religious mumbo-jumbo that can get an agnostic or an atheist going.
Cowperson
ayep. Thats likely what its like.
I was just at my grandmothers funeral, a good old Catholic event that had all of the bells and whistles associated with the event.
Incense, chanting, singing, prayer, on your knees to your feet to sitting, choir singing. The spectacle was a site to behold, and the priest really looked like he believed what he was preaching. The event had a spell bounding affect and you could see it in the people. Most of those people also drink, smoke, swear and likely have/had sex outside of the procreation circle as well.
The fact that a church has history on its side doesnt make it less cult like than those we actually label as such.
Its always tough to leave a "faith" after early indoctrination. (Remember we are all born atheists, we are taught our particular brand of theism by our parents and grandparents). I equate it to quitting smoking, or recovering from any other addiction. They surround you at all times, create an atmosphere you become used to, and when you try breaking free from it you become isolated from what you felt familiar with.
Your right I dont presume to know "your life", but I do know and understand the magnetic draw of religion.
Most atheists have been there themselves.
I WAS NOT indoctrinated and my grandparents and father were not, and still are not, christians. It would be more accurate to say that my father was not pleased in the slightest that I would go to church. Not only that when I decided earlier in my life to go away from my faith my mother had already done so. So to say I was surrounded by it at all times really isn't accurate. Instead I was surrounded by people who encouraged me to go drinking and to do what is "fun". Instead, like I said I just felt I was missing something and after a couple of years decided I wanted to go back to church from no one telling me I should.
Yes and my post there stands as the only one in this entire thread who actually looked as the substance of the graph that this thread was suppose to be about. You left out the rest of my post where I expose the lack of scholarship behind the graph and pondered the motivation for putting such a thing together. It wasn't a desire for truth.
Both Harris' intelligence had been put on the table and the mantra of "science and reason" before I posted. I merely opined on the first and refuted the second.
Yah and you left out the part where my post was evidence of you showing a lack of respect for everybody. My post was nothing about if your post was correct or not just about how you act. I guess you missed the point.
it is ok to disagree but you came out hostile at the start of this topic...again. All of your posts contain at least one of the phrases, you dont understand,week minded, I comprehend better than everybody else, blah blah blah.
Sure there are a lot of attacks to your beliefs and they must be hard to read all the time but I think a great deal comes because of your attitude to others.
Why not be the bigger man for once and make all of them look bad by responding maturely with a consice answer rather than name calling. It would be impossible to stop everybody pilling on but perhaps the actions by one person (and I mean you) just might make the difference.
The insults to your beliefs will probably exsist but the personal attacks that you bring on with your attitude just might slow down.
As I mentioned before if you are presented with the truth and choose not to accept it than there is nothing hubris about it. That is a choice you make of free will.
You're misunderstanding the question I'm asking though. Why am I so special that I have the Truth that most others miss? What makes you better than 60% of the rest of the world's population that you know the right choice?
And I don't see how a choice made at gun point can be a choice made of free will, you'll have to explain that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockin' Flames
I also believe that the very small amount of people that never hear of Jesus and his salvation will go to heaven.
Very small? Entire continents hadn't heard of Jesus for a long time.
A person who does bad things but hasn't heard the gospel goes to heaven, but a person who lives a good honest life but doesn't accept the gospel for what he thinks are good reasons goes to hell? Is that just?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockin' Flames
As I mentioned before if you are presented with the truth and choose not to accept it than there is nothing hubris about it. That is a choice you make of free will.
You're misunderstanding the question I'm asking though. Why am I so special that I have the Truth that most others miss? What makes you better than 60% of the rest of the world's population that you know the right choice?
And I don't see how a choice made at gun point can be a choice made of free will, you'll have to explain that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockin' Flames
Well I was never forced kicking and screaming into accepting Christ as my saviour.
Forced kicking and screaming is a metaphor, not a literal thing. By that I meant that I didn't want to stop believing, but it was either lie to myself and disregard everything I knew and believe, or be intellectually honest, have the courage of my convictions, and stop believing. I didn't want to stop believing, and I would have grasped at anything that would have let me keep believing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockin' Flames
Since you used to be a believer I think you know I can't answer that. Only God can and will make that determination.
You can answer in a generic case though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockin' Flames
In my opinion (just my opinion and I mean no offense when I say this) I don't know if you are being honest with yourself or being led astray.
Why do you think this though? What evidence, other than I have a different conclusion, do you have that I'm not being honest with myself? If it's only because I have a different conclusion, you realize that's a logical fallacy right?
LOL! Only an Atheist would complain about scriptures being used in a discussion about the Bible.
You understand the concept of cyclical logic? You can't use the bible as proof for the bible. That's like saying I have an invisible pink unicorn and my proof is that I say so.
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