Ring Road To Nowhere - Page 15 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Cowboy89 · 10-26-2009, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Of course it is retaliation. And I'm betting the percentage of people that care what they think anymore is in the single digits.

I fully agree with you. The problem is what they think can cause a world of headaches.

You Need a Thneed · 10-26-2009, 01:55 PM

The plan that the Tsuu Tina rejected had lot of access to the Casino, and other developable parcels that would have been on reserve land, that would have had tonnes of traffic going by.

Now, with their rejection of that plan, the Plan B is going to be built without going over their land at all, and that's going to be tough. Any access to the reserve (around the casino) will be a real pain, as the access will have to be close to other interchanges, which means that full access is impossible without expensive extra ramps and bridges.

I think there will be an access of some kind built - but it will be at the reserve's expense, and it's not likely going to be off of the 37th Street Alignment, like it is now, IMO. I think it'll lave to either be where the 37th street / 66th Ave intersection is now, or off where Glenmore turns into Sarcee. The ring road will make Glenmore continue straight through, instead of turning north into Sarcee, so Sarcee could be continued across Glenmore into the reserve lands.

There's not going to be an access closer than that, the Glenmore/37th interchange is already going to be messy enough, that it will impossible to add an additional access anywhere close to there.

Map of the area.

Coys1882 · 10-26-2009, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razor Ruddock

This land belongs to the natives. They were doing quite fine before the white man showed up and started telling them to drink beer and beat up their wives. The least we can do is give them what was promised, in this case, free access to their reserves.

All through history conquered nations were forced to assimilate - it's a shame this didn't continue here. Keeping them under our wing because of guilt has done them nothing but harm when your life begins with no motivation or ambition. Force them to be Canadian first - Sarcee second.

Bownesian · 10-26-2009, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Of course it is retaliation. And I'm betting the percentage of people that care what they think anymore is in the single digits.

I don't think it's retaliation at all. If the ring road is to be built over the weaselhead, there will have to be an interchange the size (capacity) of the Crowchild/Glenmore one. Imagine flipping the Crowchild/Glenmore interchange around 180 degrees, then imagine what would be needed to make offramp access about 20m from the middle of the intersection.

It can not be done with an overpass of that scale while preserving freeway speeds.

Jayems · 10-26-2009, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coys1882

All through history conquered nations were forced to assimilate - it's a shame this didn't continue here. Keeping them under our wing because of guilt has done them nothing but harm when your life begins with no motivation or ambition. Force them to be Canadian first - Sarcee second.

They shouldn't be forced to do anything. And throwing a blanket statement that everyone who is native is born with no motivation or ambition is silly.

Coys1882 · 10-26-2009, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jayems

They shouldn't be forced to do anything. And throwing a blanket statement that everyone who is native is born with no motivation or ambition is silly.

Yah - you're probably right about the blanket statement - it's harsh; but growing up in Northern Saskatchewan I didn't see many people who took the opportunities that they had. When do you take the blinders off and see the problem without worrying about the PC panic button?

Resolute 14 · 10-26-2009, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

I fully agree with you. The problem is what they think can cause a world of headaches.

Short of an Oka style standoff, all they can really do is whine some more.

Jayems · 10-26-2009, 03:16 PM

edit.

TheU · 10-26-2009, 03:46 PM

i think being politically correct has only enabled the natives in canada to plunge themselves into an alcohol fueled, high suicide, low employment, low motivation life style. anyone who thinks that racist or ignorant, do yourselves a favour and go to a reserve. I've been to nearly a half dozen in both provinces... and they're like 3rd world countries. on and the numbers back it up, drinking, suicide and literacy rates on reserves speak for themselves. we need to help them assimliate into society to save them

Resolute 14 · 10-26-2009, 04:33 PM

Political correctness has nothing to do with it. The reserve system itself is the problem. Much of our native population will continue to exist in poverty until it is dismantled.

Razor Ruddock · 10-26-2009, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheU

we need to help them assimliate into society to save them

Spoken like a true white colonialist missionary. Why don't we just leave them alone? They were a proud, productive society before we showed up on their continent and starting building oil derricks. Before we introduced them to alcohol, they were getting along just fine.

Boblobla · 10-26-2009, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razor Ruddock

Spoken like a true white colonialist missionary. Why don't we just leave them alone? They were a proud, productive society before we showed up on their continent and starting building oil derricks. Before we introduced them to alcohol, they were getting along just fine.

Actually, I am pretty sure we wiped out all of the Buffalo before we started raping the landscape for oil. Just sayin'

Do you actually believe what you are saying?

Tyler · 10-26-2009, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razor Ruddock

Spoken like a true white colonialist missionary. Why don't we just leave them alone? They were a proud, productive society before we showed up on their continent and starting building oil derricks. Before we introduced them to alcohol, they were getting along just fine.

It's 2009, not 1650.

Revisionist history is a lot of fun, but I assume most natives with medical problems would much prefer seeing a doctor than bringing back the local medicine man.

What's done is done, and its time to get with the 21st century. If Canada can welcome and integrate people from every single nation in the world, then why can't the native people come off their reserves and start becoming active and contributing citizens?

Resolute 14 · 10-26-2009, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razor Ruddock

Spoken like a true white colonialist missionary. Why don't we just leave them alone? They were a proud, productive society before we showed up on their continent and starting building oil derricks. Before we introduced them to alcohol, they were getting along just fine.

What they were once is irrelevant. A stronger people came and kicked their ass. Welcome to history 101. It's happened since the dawn of time.

You do speak a shred of truth in pointing out that we can't force anyone to do anything. There is, however, no shortage of cultures that have retained their own identities while still participating in society at large. The push to dismantle the reserves has to come from the inside, but when it comes, everybody will be much better off.

GreenTeaFrapp · 10-26-2009, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

The push to dismantle the reserves has to come from the inside, but when it comes, everybody will be much better off.

Except for the ones running the reserves and that's why it won't happen. The ones who want to better themselves usually leave the reserve. And they would be the ones best equipped to question leadership when it is needed.

Shazam · 10-26-2009, 05:23 PM

Sometimes I wish when you whiteys landed on America that the Indians had phased plasma rifles in the 40 watt range.

CrusaderPi · 10-26-2009, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreenTeaFrapp

Except for the ones running the reserves and that's why it won't happen. The ones who want to better themselves usually leave the reserve. And they would be the ones best equipped to question leadership when it is needed.

Inequality leads to revolution. Eventually it'll happen.

CrusaderPi · 10-26-2009, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shazam

Sometimes I wish when you whiteys landed on America that the Indians had phased plasma rifles in the 40 watt range.

If the Indians could build plasma rifles they'd have been colonizing Europe.

Razor Ruddock · 10-26-2009, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyler

It's 2009, not 1650.

Revisionist history is a lot of fun, but I assume most natives with medical problems would much prefer seeing a doctor than bringing back the local medicine man.

Native medicine was much farther advanced than European medicine. This is a straight up fact.

The white man didn't show up and clean house the way you guys are making out. The natives were a constant threat to settlers. This is why peace treaties were signed that are still in law today. I love how you're al like, "get over it, it happened three hundred years ago so it doesn't matter anymore".

Three hundred years is nothing. The treaties the white man signed are still in law and we are required by the courts to live up to our end of the bargain. If this means that a bunch of oil rich yuppies can't run a ring road through the little land they left for the natives to keep then so be it. Deal with it. You're so quick to point out that your ancestors came in and took over, but you're not so quick to accept the deals that they made in order to maintain peace.

Wookie · 10-26-2009, 06:06 PM

Aye, the indians ne'er deser'ed the land if they could'nt defend them. we took o'er, tis' our country now. they have t' li'e by our rules A pence for an old man o'de sea?