Zeitgeist, 9/11, and Other Conspiracies

[photon]

Originally Posted by moncton golden flames

you can believe the engineers and universities, but i have not read any of those documents so i can't comment on it. just don't think i should 'believe' what you think i should.

No one is telling you to "believe" anything, you said it yourself, you haven't read the material so you aren't in a position to take a position, which is the most reasonable position to take. However...

Originally Posted by moncton golden flames

as far as religion goes, i brought it up because they sell 100% certainty, similarly to what you seem to be pushing. i don't buy it.

I don't think anyone in this thread is pushing 100% certainty.

However you must agree that some ideas are far more likely than others. One fallacy that conspiracy theorists fall into is this idea that an unanswered question or a uncertainty automatically means that all possible answers are equally likely.

A simple illustration of this is finding a hoofprint in your yard. What made it? Without any more info, it could be a horse, a zebra, or a unicorn. It's clear all those alternatives are not equally likely, and while you cannot say beyond doubt what made that hoofprint, in practice you can be pretty confident about it (unless you hear on the news later that the zoo had a jailbreak).

Same thing with this stuff, while I have no doubt that not all the information is available and that things are being hidden (likely to cover stupidity), this does not mean that nano-thermite being used to destroy the buildings is even a reasonable option, given the lack of evidence.

Originally Posted by moncton golden flames

but not backing down and attacking somebody's belief is assinine.

Beliefs should be fair game to attack, especailly if they are baseless but put forward as being well supported.

[ResAlien]

Originally Posted by jammies

Fotze said it best with his comments about the government; the idea that an organization of such invincible mediocrity could manage a wide-ranging and successful conspiracy is a joke. I'd be surprised if Bush v.2 could organize a handjob in a whorehouse, never mind the simulated destruction of the World Trade Centre by terrorists.

Curses, you beat me to it. I'm with you regarding Fotze's post. Nothing of this magnitude would stay hidden in this world. Are you kidding? Michael Phelps can't rip a bong load without it making front page news, but it makes total sense that a vast conspiracy exists with no word of it. And no, infowars doesn't count.

I've said it before in these kind of threads, and I'll say it again. Unless I've missed some major change in thinking, a simple application of Occam's Razor to this situation should clear up this whole "inside job" garbage.

[CaptainCrunch]

http://www.cracked.com/article_17439...-theories.html

[Locke]

I've gone through every post in this thread, and I think I've learned quite a lot. Not about the 9/11 attacks, no, I think what I knew about that before is pretty much the same. But I learned a lot about some of you.

The term 'sheeple' is hilarious btw, and hysterically mis-applied by both sides.

Just remember kids, the cake is a lie!

[Locke]

For the 'Truth' guys....

[Tower]

Here is an interesting read. Have no idea of the validity of it.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/403303/The...y-Insider-2005

Just stumbled upon it. Have only read a little bit so far.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Locke

Just remember kids, the cake is a lie!

Best obscure reference of the day.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by Tower

Here is an interesting read. Have no idea of the validity of it.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/403303/The...y-Insider-2005

Just stumbled upon it. Have only read a little bit so far.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.. Sorry but.... hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

I can't believe I wasted 2 minutes reading that schizophrenic babble. Sorry but that holds less weight than the guy on the street corner who says that he is the second coming. I can give you an idea as to the validity of it.... there is none.

Random guy on the internet says that he is part of some ruling class and puts out a bunch of babble regarding slavery and earth as a prison or some crap like that - and it is suckers like you that will believe anything they come across on the internet regardless as to common sense and logical thought.

Hey did I tell you I am a Nigerian King and if you send me all your money I can make you really rich.

Edit: NO. Why would I edit my post - I think that it is stupid that you would post something from "godlikeproductions.com" regarding some lunatic who thinks they are from a ruling class or some crap like that. You don't want me to call your post stupid. Then don't post stupid crap.

[Tower]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.. Sorry but.... hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

I can't believe I wasted 2 minutes reading that schizophrenic babble. Sorry but that holds less weight than the guy on the street corner who says that he is the second coming. I can give you an idea as to the validity of it.... there is none.

Random guy on the internet says that he is part of some ruling class and puts out a bunch of babble regarding slavery and earth as a prison or some crap like that - and it is suckers like you that will believe anything they come across on the internet regardless as to common sense and logical thought.

Hey did I tell you I am a Nigerian King and if you send me all your money I can make you really rich.

It's pretty fun for a read. I'm not at all saying take this for fact nor truth. As I stated I have no idea on it's validity. I'm calling it fiction.

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by Tower

It's pretty fun for a read. I'm not at all saying take this for fact nor truth. As I stated I have no idea on it's validity. I'm calling it fiction.

This has got to get frustrating for people who are actually trying to advance intelligent discussion.

"I'm not saying this isn't stupid and baseless, I'm just saying it"

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Tower

As I stated I have no idea on it's validity.

Seriously?

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Gozer

This has got to get frustrating for people who are actually trying to advance intelligent discussion.

"I'm not saying this isn't stupid and baseless, I'm just saying it"

haha, it's like going to a fat guy and saying "I really don't think you need to work out or anything, but........Golds gym has a wicked deal right now, and you seem to have some free time, so uh.....you know."

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by flameswin

haha, it's like going to a fat guy and saying "I really don't think you need to work out or anything, but........Golds gym has a wicked deal right now, and you seem to have some free time, so uh.....you know."

Fatty: I already have a gym membership, and that "deal" would be twice my current membership.

Jagoff: That in no way conflicts with my statement

[Tower]

Bark! Bark! Bark!

[Resolute 14]

[mikey_the_redneck]

Here is a short 7 minute video (non Alex Jones) talking with an architect about 9/11. He raises some intersting questions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oO2yT0uBQbM

In this 10 minute interview, ex MI5 intelligence officer Annie Machon talks about the media and secrecy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--pnogBeV2Y

[transplant99]

Why the 9/11 Conspiracy Theories Won't Go Away

There are psychological explanations for why conspiracy theories are so seductive. Academics who study them argue that they meet a basic human need: to have the magnitude of any given effect be balanced by the magnitude of the cause behind it. A world in which tiny causes can have huge consequences feels scary and unreliable. Therefore a grand disaster like Sept. 11 needs a grand conspiracy behind it. "We tend to associate major events--a President or princess dying--with major causes," says Patrick Leman, a lecturer in psychology at Royal Holloway University of London, who has conducted studies on conspiracy belief. "If we think big events like a President being assassinated can happen at the hands of a minor individual, that points to the unpredictability and randomness of life and unsettles us." In that sense, the idea that there is a malevolent controlling force orchestrating global events is, in a perverse way, comforting.

Good read.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...1304-1,00.html

[transplant99]

Oh and for those still buying into the WTC 7 building was planned demolition....watch the video and then read the following link.

The damage and the ensuing fire are clearly responsible for what happened...and it even has the actual explanation for the whole "pull it" comments.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HLDg...layer_embedded


http://www.debunking911.com/pull.htm

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Oh and for those still buying into the WTC 7 building was planned demolition....watch the video and then read the following link.

The damage and the ensuing fire are clearly responsible for what happened...and it even has the actual explanation for the whole "pull it" comments.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HLDg...layer_embedded


http://www.debunking911.com/pull.htm

A fire has never been known to bring down a steel framed structure.
Have you wondered why WTC7 was on fire in the first place?
Did it start on fire from being hit by tower debris? How does that happen?
Is it possible that there was an explosion inside the building to cause damage and a fire?
Why did BBC report WTC7 (even with live footage in the background) as being down 35 minutes before it fell?
The photo showing the damage to the exterior columns on the one side indicate that if that was the reason for the collapse, how come the building didnt fall obviously to that side?
No surrounding buildings came down as a result of the WTC7 collapse.........

[transplant99]

A fire has never been known to bring down a steel framed structure.

Well...except for WTC 1 & 2 which were designed differently than almost any building like them.

Have you wondered why WTC7 was on fire in the first place?

No...its pretty obvious actually. A huge chunk of burning debris from the tower collapse ripped open a 20 storey section of the building thereby setting it on fire.

Is it possible that there was an explosion inside the building to cause damage and a fire?

I suppose...but what a massive coincidence that it happened with no one knowing or seeing explosives getting planted, although some 8,000 people or so worked there, as well as two fully fueled jumbo jets blowing up over the top of this building just mere hours earlier would suggest that maybe there was a really logical explanation.

Why did BBC report WTC7 (even with live footage in the background) as being down 35 minutes before it fell?

Because the reported screwed up....many many of the media in the area that day had been told that the building was going to collapse at some point because the fire was burning out of control and they simply could do nothing about it.

According to the fire department, by 2:00PM they knew the building would soon collapse. Reporters KNEW this well before the collapse because there are videos of reporters talking about it before it happened. So we KNOW reporters were given information on WTC 7's imminent demise. We can conclude from this evidence that the fire department relayed information to reporters that the building was going to collapse. By the time the report reached the reporter at the BBC, it may have simply been miscommunicatedfrom "About to collapse" to "Has collapsed". She even starts out by saying "Details are very, very sketchy". That alone should put this to rest. She didn't say 'Sketchy'. She didn't say 'very sketchy'. She said "very, very sketchy".

And you have to ask yourself...why in the world would the hundeds and hundreds of people that conspired to have all this stuff happen...actually give a heads up to ANY news outlet about something that was about to happen...because thats the only way anyone would of known about it had this been planned...right? Why would they not just demo the building and let the news reporters on the scene report it as it happened...what was gained in telling BBC this was happening and what did they (the people behind all this) gain out of it?


Did you even read the link i provided?...watch the video at the very least. A FDNY firefighter explains BEFORE the collapse why it was going to come down.