40th Canadian Federal Election - Welcome to another Conservative Minority (whee!)

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Where's the outrage, CPC supporters, where's the outrage? You've been blasting the Liberals for 15 years over an unkept campaign promise, but when the Harper government doesn't just fail to keep a promise but instead does precisely what they said they would never do, you give them a pass. Maybe some of the conservatives on this site have been drinking that Oiler-fan kool-aid and it's made them unable to look at their favourite party objectively.

[Edit]
Fixed embedded youtube link.

Are you serious? You think there was no outrage? All it would take is for you to do a quick search both on this site and google to see coutless articles of pissed off conservatives.

It's funny that you like to promote yourself as this straight to the fact kind of poster yet you are doing the exact misleading posts as you accuse others of doing.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Are you serious? You think there was no outrage? All it would take is for you to do a quick search both on this site and google to see coutless articles of pissed off conservatives.

Oh yeah, there was complaining at the time, I'm not denying that. But most of those "pissed off conservatives" are now back in the party fold, and they'll be voting for their guy again this election. My point stands: any CPC supporter who attacks the Liberals for not scrapping the GST 15 years ago is a hypocrite of the highest order, given Harper's broken promise to not tax income trusts.

[old-fart]

I don't think so... I can not like his flip-flop on the income trust issue and still realize that he is by far the best choice out there. I don't have to love every single thing the conservatives do to know they are far any away the best choice in this election.

Doesn't make me a hypocrite at all... nor does it make me a blind partisan hack. I call them as I see them, and in this case the choice for me is clear.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Buying less stuff doesn't cost money.

I'll give you the solar/wind cost thing. That's true.

Buying less stuff would work. Converting my power to a more expensive solar or wind power solution doesn't work.

Now, if the government would place more emphasis into solar and wind power, that would work.

People buy new cars all the time. You don't have to sell the one you have and run out and buy a new one, just see to it that the next one you buy isn't a pointless gas guzzler. Is that so hard?

Yes, people buy new cars all the time, and those that do are obviously buying smaller, more fuel efficient cars, considering the SUV and big truck market is drying up, but if my car is paid for, and it runs good, I'm not going to go add another monthly payment to my already overinflated cost of living, just to get better gas milage.

But, chances are when I buy a new car, which is 3-5 years for most people, I'll be buying a more fuel efficient car.

To some people. Other people don't like needless pollution, never mind the bigger ramifications that you may or may not believe exist.

What does THAT have to do with anything?

You can't honestly expect people to go add another $300-$1000 dollars per month onto their budget just because they don't want to pollute the world as much?

Honestly?

[octothorp]

The more I look at the early numbers, the more I think the Conservatives need to be really concerned, particularly with Ontario. Last election, the Liberals got 40% in Ontario, and it resulted in getting 54 seats, compared to 40 by the Conservatives. The recent polls show an increase in Liberal support in Ontario by 2% to 7%, while Conservative support has dropped from 35% last election, to 29% now.

What makes this significant is when you look at the results in Ontario last election seat by seat. There are 19 seats that the Liberals lost by 5% or less. Of those 19 seats, 14 were won by the conservatives. A little bump in Liberal popularity in Ontario could mean a big swing in seats.

If the current polling numbers were to hold, it could easily result in the Liberals picking up 12 more seats in Ontario, the Tories dropping 10, and the Tories needing to pick up seats elsewhere to hold on to power.

Bah, I'm drawing too many conclusions based on really rough polling data.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Oh yeah, there was complaining at the time, I'm not denying that. But most of those "pissed off conservatives" are now back in the party fold, and they'll be voting for their guy again this election. My point stands: any CPC supporter who attacks the Liberals for not scrapping the GST 15 years ago is a hypocrite of the highest order, given Harper's broken promise to not tax income trusts.

So becuase the conservatives broke a promise, no conservative should vote for them?

You yourself said Chretien broke 22% of his promises yet people still vote for the libs. It all boils down to each person individualy and whether one or two broken promises means they will no longer support the party, or picking the best leader out of the choices.

[flamey_mcflame]

Originally Posted by octothorp

If the current polling numbers were to hold, it could easily result in the Liberals picking up 12 more seats in Ontario, the Tories dropping 10, and the Tories needing to pick up seats elsewhere to hold on to power.

Bah, I'm drawing too many conclusions based on really rough polling data.

Hey, analyzing the numbers is what makes politics and other endeavors interesting. There was a poll out today(Ipsos-Reid) that had the NDP polling at 22%. Now, if the NDP get 22 percent of the popular vote during the election, I will personally name my next dog or child Jarack Layton.

I think you have the right idea of looking at this election by regions. I hear so many pundits say this will be a conservative majority because they are in the 38% popular vote area. Yet, much of that support is region based in Saskatchewan and Alberta where they garner massive popularity. Ontario and Quebec still are the provinces to watch for. I think the Liberals will still get 55-60 percent of the seats in Ontario. However, if the Conservatives can avoid vote splitting with the Libs in Quebec, they could steal even more seats in Quebec.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the current Conservatives are one of the luckiest parties in Canadian politics. Three left of center parties courting the same vote, while Sweaters' Harper gets to keep all his vote. Eerily starting to look like Alberta politics.

With 5 parties accessing over 10% of the vote, it won't be long before the question of proportional representation government becomes a major hot button issue. That or I'll have to run a pseudo Neo-Con Fascist party to take some votes away from that sweet and colorful fruit.

Whatever happened to the Conservatives being a non-spending gov't. I used to vote for those guys.I'd have voted for the LIbs this election until they stated that the revenue from the green shift was going to social spending and redistribution. Too bad, the Green Shift had me somewhat excited. Then you wanted to give more money to people who make poor lifestyle decisions. Sorry, no dice.

[Slava]

^ JOM I think that the point here is if you live by the sword, you die by the sword. When Harper won in 2006 it was on accountability as a major plank. He campaigned and won on the premise that the Liberals had lied and broken too many promises. If you run that campaign and then a week later start luring people across the floor, appointing people to the senate so that they can fill cabinet posts and then going flat-out against a policy you campaigned on (which also costs many retired people millions and millions of dollars) you run the same risk as the party you ousted.

The thing is with the income trust debacle, it had to be done. That being said it could've been done on a smaller scale and prevented the major losses for the average joe while still protecting the governments income.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

So becuase the conservatives broke a promise, no conservative should vote for them?

That's not what I said at all.

I just pointed out that a CPC supporter can't attack the Liberals for failing to live up to their election promise to scrap the GST 15 years ago when Harper promised never to tax income trusts and then did just that.

People who live in glass houses...

[mykalberta]

Not sure if posted yet. According to Newsworld the Greens are back in the debates. Although it appears the format has changed.

I really hope the communist, or Nazii party never gets someone to turn their back on their constituents after they are elected else they will have the same "rights" as the Greens to be in the debates.

The simple fact is they dont have an elected MP in parliment, so they shouldnt be in the debates.

[old-fart]

Originally Posted by flamey_mcflame

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the current Conservatives are one of the luckiest parties in Canadian politics. Three left of center parties courting the same vote, while Sweaters' Harper gets to keep all his vote. Eerily starting to look like Alberta politics.

One can only assume then that you consider, by far, the luckiest party ever in history to be Jean Chretien's Liberal's of the '90s. He won 3 elections due to the vote splitting on the right of the PCs and the Reformers. Harper and others have merged those parties and moved them to the center-right. Under Dion and the Libs, he has moved his party further left to try and eat into the NDP vote. It won't work and the best he can hope for is a minority Conservative government.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Slava

^ JOM I think that the point here is if you live by the sword, you die by the sword. When Harper won in 2006 it was on accountability as a major plank. He campaigned and won on the premise that the Liberals had lied and broken too many promises. If you run that campaign and then a week later start luring people across the floor, appointing people to the senate so that they can fill cabinet posts and then going flat-out against a policy you campaigned on (which also costs many retired people millions and millions of dollars) you run the same risk as the party you ousted.

The thing is with the income trust debacle, it had to be done. That being said it could've been done on a smaller scale and prevented the major losses for the average joe while still protecting the governments income.

I agree, I was not happy with a few things that have been done over the last 2 half years. I was disappointed in the party and Harper. But then I think, what would it be like with the others in power and what have the conservatives accomplished or attempted to accomplish since they were in power and my support always comes back to them.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

That's not what I said at all.

I just pointed out that a CPC supporter can't attack the Liberals for failing to live up to their election promise to scrap the GST 15 years ago when Harper promised never to tax income trusts and then did just that.

People who live in glass houses...

But thats where I think you are wrong. If you go back through the threads I am pretty sure that many of the people that criticize the liberals for broken promises have done the same with the conservatives. Some haven`t but most have including myself.

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

But thats where I think you are wrong. If you go back through the threads I am pretty sure that many of the people that criticize the liberals for broken promises have done the same with the conservatives. Some haven`t but most have including myself.

Sure, but you use that as a reason why you can't vote Liberal, or then you also can't vote CPC for the same reason. Otherwise you are being hypocritical.

If you won't vote for Liberals for some other policy reason, great, bring that up.

But to continuously trot out the same tired things that both parties are guilt of, and trying to apply the criteria to only one of the 2 is disingenuous at best.

[automaton 3]

Sure the CPC has broken some promises, but they are still by far the best choice.

I get the shakes thinking about a Dion government or worse some kind of Lib-NDP minority alliance.

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by automaton 3

Sure the CPC has broken some promises, but they are still by far the best choice.

I get the shakes thinking about a Dion government or worse some kind of Lib-NDP minority alliance.

OK, why?

How does "Sure the CPC has broken some promises," suddenly make them "they are still by far the best choice"?

That doesn't seem like sound reasoning to me.

[octothorp]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canadavotes/s...liams-abc.html
Danny Williams and his 44 member caucus will be campaigning against the Conservatives in Newfoundland, and he'll be taking that message to other provinces. Nationally, he won't find much of an audience for his equalization complaints (which is really at the base of his anti-Harper agenda) but it sounds like he'll focus on Conservative social policies and their lack of trustworthiness. Conservatives will try to paint him as a disgruntled headhunter (which is an accurate characterization, regardless of whether his criticisms are true).
I doubt it will have much traction outside of Atlantic Canada, but will he be able to swing votes away from the Conservatives in Nova Scotia and New Brunswick? There are three vulnerable ridings in NFLD and one each in NS and NB. Of course, the 'anybody but X' campaigns are never as effective as an endorsement for another party.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Oh yeah, there was complaining at the time, I'm not denying that. But most of those "pissed off conservatives" are now back in the party fold, and they'll be voting for their guy again this election. My point stands: any CPC supporter who attacks the Liberals for not scrapping the GST 15 years ago is a hypocrite of the highest order, given Harper's broken promise to not tax income trusts.

You might want to consider the context of the statements that led to that debate. Since you clearly didn't read before judging, I'll give you the Coles Notes version.

Lib supporter: The Green Shaft is a tax cut. Nobody can screw that up!
Me: You mean like how the Liberals didn't screw up the GST cut in 1993?
Lib supporter: <excuses and rationalizations>

The argument wasn't that the Liberals are bad because they failed to axe the GST like they promised 15 years ago. The argument was that yes, the Liberals can even screw up a tax cut.

[Ronald Pagan]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

You might want to consider the context of the statements that led to that debate. Since you clearly didn't read before judging, I'll give you the Coles Notes version.

Lib supporter: The Green Shaft is a tax cut. Nobody can screw that up!
Me: You mean like how the Liberals didn't screw up the GST cut in 1993?
Lib supporter: <excuses and rationalizations>

The argument wasn't that the Liberals are bad because they failed to axe the GST like they promised 15 years ago. The argument was that yes, the Liberals can even screw up a tax cut.

Larf.

Yup that's exactly how that conversation went.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

May pushing so hard to get into this debate might lead her party to ruin on a national level.

She has issues with saying some incredibly stupid things when a microphone is thrust into her face, and a experienced Candidate like Harper and Layton will push her harder then she's ever been pushed before.

Agreed. I voted Green and campaigned for them during the last election because I liked their platform (and not because I'm a "fringe wacko" like some have so kindly generalized Green voters). The Greens biggest problem is that they elect terrible leaders. Jim Harris was very uncharismatic and was a poor public speaker. Elizabeth May is a nutjob.