Official CP Election Day Thread - Do Not Post Results Until 8pm Mountain Time.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Igottago

seriously though, you act as if Alberta has just been repeatedly raped by the Liberals, like they just **** on this Province like it is the sewage of the country...do you honestly think a liberal government has never done anything for Alberta? Anything? Like they just hate our guts and our existence? I'm not even really a liberal supporter, and I think there have been some issues, but you always sound so extreme the way you describe it. I've been an Albertan for 24 years and never felt that extremely neglected or abused by the liberal party.

I believe that the Liberals have not done a whole lot to show it cares about Alberta, no. You are trying to put words in my mouth when you try to equate my comments with "they hate our guts and existance." Chretien didn't like us much, as he admitted himself, but other than that, they generally just ignore us.

The entire point was that the Liberals have not done anything to earn the trust and support of Albertans. A large part of that problem is our electoral system, but as I have said, if the Liberals ever want to break the Tory stronghold, they have to step up and start trying to reach out to Alberta.

The Conservatives did it in Quebec, and it paid off in just eight weeks.

[RougeUnderoos]

Looks like the CalgaryPuck crowd is a lot more Green than the rest of the country. They scored 11% on the poll here but didn't even get half that in reality.

Buncha goddamn vegetarians and Prius owners!

[Cube Inmate]

Originally Posted by Igottago

Man, I don't like Harper...my time to bitch about the government every day...can't wait 'til he screws up for the first time in office

You see, that's funny...after Cretin and his Liberals stole, boondoggled, and otherwise lost my tax money, I had a pretty good hate on for Liberals and those Ontarians who elected them. When Martin took over the job, though, I was willing to give him and his Liberals a chance (on a very short leash), hoping he would actually live up to his promises to improve the country and its government.

You, on the other hand, are rooting for a screw-up? Brilliant Canadian you are.

[JimmytheT]

Liberal supporters taught you that, and only at certain times? When was the last time Alberta supported any other party than the Conservatives, or its various incarnations?

If any group in this country is an example of party loyalty under any circumstances, it's Alberta.

The Liberals have never reached out to Alberta and for that they have historically not received our support; it really didn't help when they legislated legalized theft in the early 80s and raped the Alberta Economy blind because they thought we were getting too rich while Ontario was stagnant.

And anyone who votes NDP knows nothing about economics. Wha Layton and NDP supporters dont realize about taxing big corporations are the following:

You increase corporate taxes, the cost will almost always be born by either the customer (by increased price of goods), the worker (who will lose his job because the corporation will either have to make layoffs or they will move their operation to more corporate friendly parts of the world) or most likely both. The consumers lose out and the workers are out of work. Ya Layton, you would sure be looking out for the workers, by running their employers out of the country. Moron.

[BlackArcher101]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

The softwood lumber dispute affects Eastern Canada, so I guess they just hate everyone equally then.

And what could they really do about BSE?

What could they do? Oh... maybe bargain? Play hard ball? Do ANYTHING to help the ranchers? We just stood there and watched it happen.

[MarchHare]

You increase corporate taxes, the cost will almost always be born by either the customer (by increased price of goods),

I've never bought this argument. Suppose the government lowers corporate tax rates. The Acme Corporation had been selling widgets for $10 each because that's the highest price the market will bear. Are they going to lower their prices, passing the savings on to their customers simply because they pay less in tax now? Or are they going to keep the extra profit to themselves?

Likewise, I've always heard that renters indirectly pay property tax, but I don't buy this one either. Currently I pay $795/month, because this is the highest amount my landlord figures he can get for my apartment. If his property taxes were decreased, what motivation would he have to lower my rent as well? I'm already willingly paying $795/mo.

Anyway, I generally support corporate tax cuts because they stimulate the economy and promote job creation, but it's bogus to claim that consumers bear the cost of corporate taxes.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by Cube Inmate

You see, that's funny...after Cretin and his Liberals stole, boondoggled, and otherwise lost my tax money, I had a pretty good hate on for Liberals and those Ontarians who elected them. When Martin took over the job, though, I was willing to give him and his Liberals a chance (on a very short leash), hoping he would actually live up to his promises to improve the country and its government.

You, on the other hand, are rooting for a screw-up? Brilliant Canadian you are.

sorry mr canada..its was just an off the cuff remark...i don't actually hope he screws up the country, but he is bound to make some political mistakes at some point..and I will do my duty to point them out when they do occur, and hopefully that will lead to someone I actually like being elected next time..sorry I don't jive with your excitment in the conservative victory

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by JimmytheT

The Liberals have never reached out to Alberta and for that they have historically not received our support; it really didn't help when they legislated legalized theft in the early 80s and raped the Alberta Economy blind because they thought we were getting too rich while Ontario was stagnant.

So your grudge over something that happened 20 years ago will keep you from ever considering another party? That makes a lot of sense

And anyone who votes NDP knows nothing about economics. Wha Layton and NDP supporters dont realize about taxing big corporations are the following:

You increase corporate taxes, the cost will almost always be born by either the customer (by increased price of goods), the worker (who will lose his job because the corporation will either have to make layoffs or they will move their operation to more corporate friendly parts of the world) or most likely both. The consumers lose out and the workers are out of work. Ya Layton, you would sure be looking out for the workers, by running their employers out of the country. Moron.

Your simplistic view of economics sure makes it look like you know more.
It's not like any corporations are making boatloads of money and could afford higher taxes. Those poor CEOs are barely scraping by as it is, how dare the lowly average citizen try to save money at their expense.

Maybe some coporations that are making record profits could handle some tax hikes and take it out of their profits.

And I guess that means anyone who votes Conservative knows about nothing more then catering to the rich. You're so scared of making the big bad corporations angry you don't care about the rest of the tax payers who have to pick up the slack.
What about things like the environment, human rights, equality, social issues etc.
Do you anything about these, or is it all about $$$$$$$?

[PYroMaNiaC]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that Albertans vote Conservative because that's what reflects their beliefs. If the Liberal party were to change its' platforms and resonate with Albertans, they would get the vote of the people here.

Look at some of the ridings in Edmonton. They don't always go Conservative. If there was a candidate that appealed to the people, that's where the vote would go. This election was about change, as Harper said. The corruption had to stop. It was about showing the Liberals that accountability is important.

As far as Anders goes, Harper is not a stupid man. He didn't get to where he is by being blind. If Anders doesn't tow the party line and keep his mouth shut, you can expect he'll be replaced in 2 years - just in time for the next election. Harper will want a majority and Anders isn't helping his cause if he's an embarrassment.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by JimmytheT

The Liberals have never reached out to Alberta and for that they have historically not received our support; it really didn't help when they legislated legalized theft in the early 80s and raped the Alberta Economy blind because they thought we were getting too rich while Ontario was stagnant.

And anyone who votes NDP knows nothing about economics. Wha Layton and NDP supporters dont realize about taxing big corporations are the following:

You increase corporate taxes, the cost will almost always be born by either the customer (by increased price of goods), the worker (who will lose his job because the corporation will either have to make layoffs or they will move their operation to more corporate friendly parts of the world) or most likely both. The consumers lose out and the workers are out of work. Ya Layton, you would sure be looking out for the workers, by running their employers out of the country. Moron.

You have to remember that at one time there was no income tax. Where else did the government get their money from but from corporations. Nowadays big business have been playing one government off against the other and have received huge tax beneifits as well as giveaways. Meantime our personal taxes keep going up.The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Some might say, same ****e different pile.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by PYroMaNiaC

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that Albertans vote Conservative because that's what reflects their beliefs. If the Liberal party were to change its' platforms and resonate with Albertans, they would get the vote of the people here.

Absolutely agree. But why is that Ontario voters get classified as sheep for doing the same thing? Are they not allowed to have different beliefs then the average Albertan?

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by BlackArcher101

What could they do? Oh... maybe bargain? Play hard ball? Do ANYTHING to help the ranchers? We just stood there and watched it happen.

If it was an American cow that had BSE, we would have done the same thing - and rightfully.

There is no negotiating in those circumstances. IT's serious enough to shut down the industry temporarily.

Unless you wanted more federal handouts to ranchers, in which case, the NDP should be your party.

[PYroMaNiaC]

[quote=Winsor_Pilates]
Maybe some coporations that are making record profits could handle some tax hikes and take it out of their profits. quote]

They could but they won't. Business is about making money, about profits. If they can make more money in a province where there are lower taxes, why would they stay where they are? It's not a sound business decision. Same goes for countries. These big businesses didn't get big by putting some idiot in charge who won't make their money work for them.

[Cube Inmate]

Originally Posted by Igottago

sorry mr canada.. ... ..sorry I don't jive with your excitment in the conservative victory

I have no excitement...just some hope that things will change.

I'm no historian, but I doubt there's ever been as much turmoil in the country's politics as there has been in the last 5+ years. While there have been scandals, the present availability of information has (perhaps) made the population realize how F'd up the political system is. In the past, situations like this were probably not as well understood as they've become now.

Maybe THAT, combined with a change in government, is a good reason to hope that things will actually improve a bit.

Hope, not fear. Not hoping for a screw-up. Wouldn't it be nice if Canada could regain some respect internationally?

[MarchHare]

Wouldn't it be nice if Canada could regain some respect internationally?

You mean moreso than we are now? Canada is already one of the most respected countries in the world for our freedom, tolerance of diversity, strong economy, commitment to UN Peacekeeping, and human rights standards. I don't know about you, but I proudly wear my Canadian flag whenever I'm travelling overseas.

[PYroMaNiaC]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

Absolutely agree. But why is that Ontario voters get classified as sheep for doing the same thing? Are they not allowed to have different beliefs then the average Albertan?

Yes, of course. But to Albertans, I think they see Ontario as being catered to by Liberals. Instead of reaching out to us and making us included, they reach out the the larger voter base to secure their jobs. They could secure their jobs by doing their jobs - working for all Canadians.

[Winsor_Pilates]

[QUOTE=PYroMaNiaC]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

Maybe some coporations that are making record profits could handle some tax hikes and take it out of their profits. quote]

They could but they won't. Business is about making money, about profits. If they can make more money in a province where there are lower taxes, why would they stay where they are? It's not a sound business decision. Same goes for countries. These big businesses didn't get big by putting some idiot in charge who won't make their money work for them.

I agree, but should we voting for a party just becuase they will bend over the fastest for crooked corporations?
I personally have a moral dilema with simply taking it up the *** from the corp, simply because they don't want to lose profits.
Apperently that makes me a moron.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

You mean moreso than we are now? Canada is already one of the most respected countries in the world for our freedom, tolerance of diversity, strong economy, commitment to UN Peacekeeping, and human rights standards. I don't know about you, but I proudly wear my Canadian flag whenever I'm travelling overseas.

Especially considering that most western free countries have "liberal" governments, you have to wonder how much people will respect Harper if he pursues social conservative policies.

Of course, that is just an 'if' right now.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by PYroMaNiaC

Yes, of course. But to Albertans, I think they see Ontario as being catered to by Liberals. Instead of reaching out to us and making us included, they reach out the the larger voter base to secure their jobs. They could secure their jobs by doing their jobs - working for all Canadians.

Ontario prospering has nothing to do with the Liberal Party. They prospered under Mulroney too. It's their geography and access to large American markets and ports that lures industry.

Just like how in the next decade, Alberta's access to energy will lure industry - no matter what political party is in charge.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

You mean moreso than we are now? Canada is already one of the most respected countries in the world for our freedom, tolerance of diversity, strong economy, commitment to UN Peacekeeping, and human rights standards. I don't know about you, but I proudly wear my Canadian flag whenever I'm travelling overseas.

I agree with you but we need more military strength so we don't have other countries poaching on our northern territories. We can't rely on the Yanks or Brits anymore, in fact neither are exactly acting like friends lately.