Hart, McLeod, Dube, Foote, Formenton charged with sexual assault

[Wastedyouth]

Oh boy, Dube. Why?

You stupid manchild.

[MacDaddy77]

nvm

[trackercowe]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Is it possible he hasn't been listed since his leave was announced?

He's not even listed in the stats section. It's like they've removed any trace of him on the team.

https://www.nhl.com/flames/stats

[codynw]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

If the Sharks can terminate Kane's contract, the Flames can absolutely do the same for Dube.

True but the Sharks still paid Kane, they just ditched the cap hit. If found guilty I imagine the Flames could fully terminate Dube’s contract.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by bzoo02

Totally possible, just thought it was interesting. I'm not sure if it means anything, but also worth noting that Kylington IS listed.

Kylington wasn't listed the whole time he was away though, and he IS with the main team roster now.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Pekkerhead

So if Dube is charged (not saying he will be), will his contract be voided?

Perry says high

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by trackercowe

He's not even listed in the stats section. It's like they've removed any trace of him on the team.

https://www.nhl.com/flames/stats

Still on the overall NHL Stats:

https://www.nhl.com/stats/skaters?re...=0&pageSize=50

[Willi Plett]

I’ve been waiting for this issue to come to a head. I felt Dubes play alone was a portrayal of a mental struggle and we all knew this was coming.

Many have commented on the Flames and whether they should have said it was for mental health. I would suggest that the Flames are at this time legally bound to say whatever the player, the players agent, or the players lawyer has stated. Privacy law, the CBA, and law in general (read libel) prevents them from doing any different.

Even if a player was accused #1 and later deemed (let’s call it) the most guilty by a court of law, an NHL team would not be able to take any action without proof of guilt.

When there is an ongoing criminal investigation, a civil suit, and a hockey Canada appeal ongoing involving multiple players, no individual NHL team could unilaterally take upon there own investigation without compromising the rest and potentially creating their own legal issues.

Up until now, no player has stepped out and made an admission of guilt to anyone’s knowledge. Given the hockey Canada appeal, one could assume that at minimum, some players did something that will be deemed a violation of Hockey Canadas code of conduct. Given that London policy are now planning to charge 5 players, there is a future possibility of criminal guilt.

Still, coming back to Dube and mental health, the Flames do not have grounds to say anything other than the exact reason the player has stated. Further, if he was guilty in any way, by this point I would think his mental health would leave him in a place where playing to his potential or playing at all was not possible. On the flip, even if he is only associated to it because he was the captain, with all the questions and what is about to unfold, I don’t know about you but it would be eating me alive.

Whatever the case, Dube already knows the facts. Already knows what’s coming. There will be more questioning, court appearance and statements even if it is the minimum of "knows facts". And the media questioning forthcoming? Yikes.

Stating Im leaving for mental health reasons is legitimate and unquestionable by the Flames.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

It's odd that for both Kylington and Dube the team put out a communication that it wasn't related to substance abuse. If it turns out that Hart and Dube are both on leave because of this, are they going to have to put out a statement that it is not due to substance abuse, or criminal activity in the future?

On another note, it seems a bit crappy that they do put out the qualifier of not substance abuse, as it further stigmatizes substance abuse as something worse and may prevent others from entering the program.

Your second point is spot-on, but I doubt there will be an ongoing need for the kind of qualification you mentioned in the first. It's not every day that an internationally reported criminal indictment involves multiple professional athletes at the same time.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Torture

So are we going to talk about the fact that the Flames said Dube was leaving 'to attend to his mental health'?

Cause oof Flames. All of a sudden that statement is not a great look.

Given that this is a criminal matter, and if involved Dube is also entitled to certain protections of his own privacy prior to when charges are actually made public, I would imagine that the Flames also have to navigate the whole situation pretty carefully. People are going to see what they want to see, but there is no easy way for them to navigate this.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Didn't say anything then (and refrained from posting in the Dube thread) because I had heard late last week that Dube and Hart would be two of the players implicated in these proceedings and looks like that ended up being good intel based on how the last 4 or 5 days since then have went.

In terms of Dube specifically it's quite possible there is a separate mental health aspect to this...but to me personally if he ends up being one of the 5 charged then framing it as a mental health leave was not a good move by the organization.

Again, like you will try not to speculate further. But is this the Flames framing it that way, or is it just a reality of what they've been presented with? I honestly don't know, but playing it out.

We black and white these things. Dube / Flames framing something more sinister as mental health. When in actual fact, both the sinster reality can be true, and the mental health aspect can be true.

I usually think the mostly likely path is the usually what occurs. If we allow ourselves to connect the dots, in my mind the most likely scenario is something like this when it comes to the leave of absence:

- He gets word he's likely going to be charged with a crime.
- This coming to a head, probably very legitimately causes him a large amount of stress and anxiety - NOT implying that anyone should feel empathy or that this makes him a victim.
- In this day and age, when that happens, you take a leave for mental health reasons, so he requests that he get a leave of absence for mental health - the Flames oblige, because they should when a player suggests they need it. Part of being along for the journey on opening up healing for mental health is you don't out the gate get to say yay or nay based on peoples "reasons" for being not well mentally.
- You can't not announce what's happening to the public, so the Flames need to let the world know Dube is out on mental health leave, and just like with Kyllington they have to offer up the we respect his privacy.

My point being. I'm not trying to say that it's not possible that the Flames and Dube knew this was coming and were working together on PR spin............but I don't think we should jump to conclusion. Very possible this was a move completely directed by the player, and the Flames kind of have to allow it and shouldn't be hiding it.

Judging the Flames on their actions IMO is really important once / if he's formally charged and even further details come out.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by KelVarnsen

You said that. It's victim blaming.

That’s ridiculous. I said it’s prudent advice in any situation to be aware of your surroundings. I’m in no way blaming the victim in this case. Terrible take and terribly mean spirited assumption.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Given that this is a criminal matter, and if involved Dube is also entitled to certain protections of his own privacy prior to when charges are actually made public, I would imagine that the Flames also have to navigate the whole situation pretty carefully. People are going to see what they want to see, but there is no easy way for them to navigate this.

just came to say this...I know everyone accused is guilty and should get the death penalty these days but the accused do in fact have rights.

[dammage79]

Well, the circus is about to begin. Buckle up.

[Locke]

I wonder if...'Leaving for Mental Health Reasons' is so they cant terminate his contract?

Hm.

[Vedder]

Flames would have been better off with a general statement. Why would they have to disclose it’s for mental health reasons. It wasn’t said with Oliver.

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by Willi Plett

I’ve been waiting for this issue to come to a head. I felt Dubes play alone was a portrayal of a mental struggle and we all knew this was coming.

Many have commented on the Flames and whether they should have said it was for mental health. I would suggest that the Flames are at this time legally bound to say whatever the player, the players agent, or the players lawyer has stated. Privacy law, the CBA, and law in general (read libel) prevents them from doing any different.

Even if a player was accused #1 and later deemed (let’s call it) the most guilty by a court of law, an NHL team would not be able to take any action without proof of guilt.

When there is an ongoing criminal investigation, a civil suit, and a hockey Canada appeal ongoing involving multiple players, no individual NHL team could unilaterally take upon there own investigation without compromising the rest and potentially creating their own legal issues.

Up until now, no player has stepped out and made an admission of guilt to anyone’s knowledge. Given the hockey Canada appeal, one could assume that at minimum, some players did something that will be deemed a violation of Hockey Canadas code of conduct. Given that London policy are now planning to charge 5 players, there is a future possibility of criminal guilt.

Still, coming back to Dube and mental health, the Flames do not have grounds to say anything other than the exact reason the player has stated. Further, if he was guilty in any way, by this point I would think his mental health would leave him in a place where playing to his potential or playing at all was not possible. On the flip, even if he is only associated to it because he was the captain, with all the questions and what is about to unfold, I don’t know about you but it would be eating me alive.

Whatever the case, Dube already knows the facts. Already knows what’s coming. There will be more questioning, court appearance and statements even if it is the minimum of "knows facts". And the media questioning forthcoming? Yikes.

Stating Im leaving for mental health reasons is legitimate and unquestionable by the Flames.

Is there a reason the flames had to bring in the mental health angle? Could they not have simply said “he’s taken a leave of absence from the team”? It seems like a simpler statement would have still covered Dube’s agents wishes without making the flames look like dicks

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Vedder

Flames would have been better off with a general statement. Why would they have to disclose it’s for mental health reasons. It wasn’t said with Oliver.

Were leaves of absences for mental health really a thing before Kylington?

Oliver and the Flames have since been public about it, but it seems like it paved the way to begin with.

[DJones]

Originally Posted by bluejays

That’s ridiculous. I said it’s prudent advice in any situation to be aware of your surroundings. I’m in no way blaming the victim in this case. Terrible take and terribly mean spirited assumption.

Ya this idea that we are going to live in a world with zero risk is absurd.

I think everyone has done something stupid, like walk home alone in sketchy areas or go to some sketchy afters. It's not my fault that I almost got bear maced but at the same time I'm not going to do that again.

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by Locke

I wonder if...'Leaving for Mental Health Reasons' is so they cant terminate his contract?

Hm.

They wouldn't need that.

Perry's contact was terminated recently and his act was slap on the wrist worthy if John Scott's claims are true.

Most contracts have morality clauses.