[Rumour] Francis: All contract talks on hold for Flames

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

The Karlsson talk is interesting and obviously encouraging that a player who seemingly lost all value was able to revive his game. He had 4 years left on his deal though, not 8. How long do you have to sacrifice any semblance of a team game and building the right culture to prop up Huberdeau's numbers for a potential deal?

That said, nothing is working for Huberdeau so I'm not against giving him a bunch more ice time for a while, especially if it comes at the expense of other forwards that aren't doing anything. What can it hurt.

It's not exactly the same, the fact is the league was fooled into thinking he was a top player still.

He won a Norris lol, what a joke that was

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by dino7c

I'm chilled

People are so wrong about this pick though

Yup, and they were quickly corrected. Why are you still chirping about it?

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by Muta

I can't believe we gave up a 1st to get one year of a $6M contract off our hands.

If you look back to that thread too, shocking how many were in support of it. Was staggering at the time, and it’s only aged worse.

[Burninator]

I am very skeptic and cynical about this team committing to a re-tooling / rebuild / whatever. Feels like the focus has been make small changes, make the playoffs and hope for lighting in a bottle. I'll believe when I see it but at least hearing anything about a different approach is a positive.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

He gets way too much of a pass. Our ownership takes beatings for the failings of our GM’s all the time.

The Flames should have never been in a position in the first place but Tree fumbled his top 2 players. Did Murray Edwards tell Treliving to give 37 year old Reeves 3 years term or Kampf a 4 year extension? He wanted Kadri for years and made it happen.

Did he fumble it? Or was he working within the parameters given to him by ownership? He can’t force players to sign.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by dino7c

It's not exactly the same, the fact is the league was fooled into thinking he was a top player still.

He won a Norris lol, what a joke that was

Well to be fair he had 101 points from the backend which hadn't been done in 30 years. Huberdeau would need about 150 points to get that kind of attention.

I would say there is almost nothing Huberdeau could do to have trade value this season. If he is going to have a renaissance and the hope is to trade him, it may as well not happen for a while.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by timun

The only people saying "signings were close" and now "signings are on hold" are unreliable media. I don't know why anyone puts stock into any of this, it's totally baseless either way. You might as well pick up a copy of the Weekly World News at the grocery store checkout and keep up with the latest goings-on of "Bat Boy".

I wish

They stopped printing it a few years ago

[browna]

Good. Backlund only signed becuase he was asking for and getting a token captaincy, but he has as much value this TD as he will in offseason.

CC got strung along by some agents who said their pending UFA clients would play better now that big bad mean Sutter was gone, and really, they havent.

Time to cut bait, as besides the average at best performance, none of them has professed an undying love for the city or the Flames (whereas others have), at least not certainly to the extent of having them around as part of a core for 6-8 years in Hanifin and Lindholm's case.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Bat Boy as General Manager.

[Jaydee]

Maloney needs to GTFO, he basically trained Treliving!!!

[Jaydee]

We traded who we should have made Captain and we are gonna lose our 1st round pic for it aren't we? And he would be leading us in points

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Did he fumble it? Or was he working within the parameters given to him by ownership? He can’t force players to sign.

I am far from convinced ownership forced him to bridge Tkachuk. He had the best chance to lock in Gaudreau before the previous season started and rolled the dice and we lost him for nothing. While people in the org say they believed he always wanted to stay a lot of fans and media were not remotely surprised he headed to eastern US. I think he misjudged things with Tkachuk where he structured a deal to allow him to get all the leverage.

I think Treliving was given a mandate to win and had the ability to spend to the cap to make it happen. I don’t believe Edwards was over his shoulder telling him to hand out 6 years to Coleman or 5 years to Neal, trading picks for Hamonic. Thank goodness the Zucker deal never happened.

Certainly not absolving our owners here but they are an easy scapegoat for fans to point at when the GM makes incompetent decisions. I have examples of terrible moves he has already made in Toronto.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I am far from convinced ownership forced him to bridge Tkachuk. He had the best chance to lock in Gaudreau before the previous season started and rolled the dice and we lost him for nothing. While people in the org say they believed he always wanted to stay a lot of fans and media were not remotely surprised he headed to eastern US. I think he misjudged things with Tkachuk where he structured a deal to allow him to get all the leverage.

I think Treliving was given a mandate to win and had the ability to spend to the cap to make it happen. I don’t believe Edwards was over his shoulder telling him to hand out 6 years to Coleman or 5 years to Neal, trading picks for Hamonic. Thank goodness the Zucker deal never happened.

Certainly not absolving our owners here but they are an easy scapegoat for fans to point at when the GM makes incompetent decisions. I have examples of terrible moves he has already made in Toronto.

This exactly. The ownership says “we will spend to the max”. But the likelihood that they were insistent on signing Neal or insistent on trading for Hamonic is ludicrous. That was all our hockey braintrust identifying those guys as the missing pieces.

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I am far from convinced ownership forced him to bridge Tkachuk. He had the best chance to lock in Gaudreau before the previous season started and rolled the dice and we lost him for nothing. While people in the org say they believed he always wanted to stay a lot of fans and media were not remotely surprised he headed to eastern US. I think he misjudged things with Tkachuk where he structured a deal to allow him to get all the leverage.

I think Treliving was given a mandate to win and had the ability to spend to the cap to make it happen. I don’t believe Edwards was over his shoulder telling him to hand out 6 years to Coleman or 5 years to Neal, trading picks for Hamonic. Thank goodness the Zucker deal never happened.

Certainly not absolving our owners here but they are an easy scapegoat for fans to point at when the GM makes incompetent decisions. I have examples of terrible moves he has already made in Toronto.

They aren’t a scapegoat they are a clear problem. The owners and Tre can both have been wrong. I don’t think it has to be either or.

I have a hard time seeing any reason to think the owners aren’t a major reason why the team is in the state it’s in. That doesn’t absolve Tre and crew for the bad moves they made but they were making decisions with at least one if not both hands tied behind their backs.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Or ownership demanded he sign Kadri by any means necessary so he pulled the move knowing it was idiotic and that if he didn’t he’d be out of a job.

Why else do you think he walked? He was tired of the godawful direction and mandate he was given from ownership.

Too many assumptions. Owners are not some sort of enemy that forces the GM to make certain decisions are they?

[FormerPresJamesTaylor]

Considering how Treliving traded for Kadri in the past I doubt this was some intense owner pressuring.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Or ownership demanded he sign Kadri by any means necessary so he pulled the move knowing it was idiotic and that if he didn’t he’d be out of a job.

Why else do you think he walked? He was tired of the godawful direction and mandate he was given from ownership.

Because he saw the mess he created and said lol I am out. Tre liked to sign bad UFA contracts and hire bad coaches. He did it multiple times. He also tried to trade for Kadri earlier. Weird that you’d create a backstory of Edwards dictating signings and trades rather than admitting Tre was overrated. He had a chance to sign Tkachuk and Gaudreau to long term contracts and didn’t.

[Backstop]

As mentioned by someone in another thread, Bean likely has a revenue projection model that shows a team in a small market with limited entertainment options does not need to win a cup to sustain their revenue targets but rather only requires the illusion of could make the playoffs to put butts in seats and meet targets.


It is obvious fan interest is waning which requires intervention to maintain the model. Rather than this management group committing to properly building a contender and allowing for a few years of lower attendance and revenue it is likely we see a few quick trades to bring in some new faces, drive a little bit of hope and enthusiasm in the fans and reestablish the revenue model course.


I hope I’m wrong and someone can call me out on this down the road, but as this team is run by accountants I unfortunately do not think the above is very far off the mark.


To be clear, I think this management group would be happy to win a cup and does not build around cheapest option but rather chooses options that sustain the model without allowing it to dip below target for any extended period.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Backstop

As mentioned by someone in another thread, Bean likely has a revenue projection model that shows a team in a small market with limited entertainment options does not need to win a cup to sustain their revenue targets but rather only requires the illusion of could make the playoffs to put butts in seats and meet targets.


It is obvious fan interest is waning which requires intervention to maintain the model. Rather than this management group committing to properly building a contender and allowing for a few years of lower attendance and revenue it is likely we see a few quick trades to bring in some new faces, drive a little bit of hope and enthusiasm in the fans and reestablish the revenue model course.


I hope I’m wrong and someone can call me out on this down the road, but as this team is run by accountants I unfortunately do not think the above is very far off the mark.


To be clear, I think this management group would be happy to win a cup and does not build around cheapest option but rather chooses options that sustain the model without allowing it to dip below target for any extended period.

I think it is less about the dollars and more about the fact that Edwards doesn’t like to lose. He is ruthless on the business side as well. Even if the Flames lose 10 million dollars like the coyotes are projecting it is 1.5% of the franchise value of the Flames and .25% of Edwards personal net worth. That isn’t even accounting for the increasing asset value of the Flames since the ownership group has bought it. I’d bet it is more about ego than year over year revenue in a capped league otherwise they’d be operating on an internal cap.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

This exactly. The ownership says “we will spend to the max”. But the likelihood that they were insistent on signing Neal or insistent on trading for Hamonic is ludicrous. That was all our hockey braintrust identifying those guys as the missing pieces.

No one is saying Edwards told him to sign those guys
But you are ignoring the dynamic created if he was told to win now, and to use cap to plug holes.
For a destination like Calgary that means higher risk signings because they don’t get the top end guys.
With any workplace the dynamics created by one’s boss can lead to bad decisions