[Rumour] Coyotes owner put in letter of intent to buy 41 acres of land in Mesa, Arizona

[Jordan!]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

So you know where this new site is? Please share, because unless you know for certain where the NE Phoenix/Scottsdale location is you’re making assumptions that are unlikely to materialize. Just building in that location is unlikely to lead to a windfall for anyone. If that were the case all sports facilities would be in Scottsdale. Cause the other owners would know what you’re suggesting. The reality is Scottsdale wants no part of such facilities and not many citizens would support such an enterprise. There are decades of support that those in Scottsdale prefer these facilities elsewhere.

Looking at the zoning map and recognizing the dynamics of Metro Phoenix politics I am at a loss to where this location could be. The limits on where a facility like this could go are pretty significant. And it’s not like we’re going to see zoning altered for the Coyotes. That has failed at every turn. So to suggest Coyotes ownership is going to get rich off this venture from a real estate perspective, that doesn’t hold water. Glendale thought the same and it was a disaster. Sports facilities do not create Rodeo Drives, they do the opposite. They don’t create vibrant residential areas, they do the opposite. This would be another entertainment district in a sea of entertainment districts and tax payers have no interest in that.

Explain to me then why the Diamondbacks are also wanting to move to Scottsdale? If the team can create another Scottsdale Quarter type of district surrounded by an arena in a location that these "rich" folks will find accessible it will be the single best location business wise they can select. Essentially anywhere between the 51 to Scottsdale road is GOLD and that is where the location likely will be judging by what Craig Morgan has wrote and a few twitter/reddit sleuths.

The demographics are 100% different than Westgate in a cornfield. This is pre-established demographically and within a stones throw from Scottsdale and easy to access from Paradise Valley.

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by Jordan!

I live in Gilbert and the drive there would be a trek, but I made the drive on the 202 to the 101 just to get to Glendale (Before the 202 South Mountain was completed, I refused to take the I-10 to Glendale) and dreamed a rink would end up in the desert ridge/city north/north Phoenix area. It's literally IN the highest value ticket base and very close to where practically all of the players live. The land is HIGH end and Meruelo will make an absolute killing on housing alone. The team could continue to draw 5000 fans a game and Meruelo would still be profitable.

Tempe was an amazing location but parking, in and out to freeway would've been a god damn nightmare.

People saying this new location is as bad as Glendale are out to lunch.. This is the best location if you want to fill Suites and high priced ticketed seats. Sure Gilbert and Chandler get a bit of a drive but it's its still close enough to provide access to Southeast valley hockey people.

But most importantly, that location allows Meruelo/Coyotes to rake in as much retail and condo/apartment money as possible. Right now people in that affluent area can only go to Scottsdale Quarter as the nearest spot or Kierland.. now they may have a "Rodeo Drive" of the valley in their back yard.

If there was that much demand for a "Rodeo Drive" of the valley it would already be there.

Saying an arena has to be in the perfect spot to get attendance sure seems risky to me.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

You just implied that there was not:



You are arguing against the claim that litigation is a common feature in projects requiring a plebiscite in the U.S. You have offered nothing, zero, zilch, zip, nada, in evidence against that claim. You reject the claim itself as ‘something coming from the organization’, i.e. propaganda from an interested party, and as such of no evidentiary value – without any proof that this is indeed the source.

If there is ‘plenty of evidence’ against TheScorpion's claim, let's hear some of it.

Well it's a lot easier to support a claim that something is common than that it isn't common...

Originally Posted by Jordan!

I would be 100% be on board for a complete team re-branding to be honest.. The name Coyotes has a stink to it. Has that ever been done in pro sports? Phoenix Scorpions?

Bullets to Wizards
Racists to Commanders
Indians to Guardians

So you could play up the human trafficking aspect of coyotes, or implicate those canines in some racist gun crimes or something.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Well it's a lot easier to support a claim that something is common than that it isn't common...



Bullets to Wizards
Racists to Commanders
Indians to Guardians

So you could play up the human trafficking aspect of coyotes, or implicate those canines in some racist gun crimes or something.

The Elks, LOL.
The Ducks instead of Mighty Ducks (to shed an image).
Hornets to Pelicans
Oilers to Titans
Bobcats to Hornets

[Jordan!]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

So you could play up the human trafficking aspect of coyotes, or implicate those canines in some racist gun crimes or something.

Interesting take, I think that would actually fly.. lol

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

You just implied that there was not:



You are arguing against the claim that litigation is a common feature in projects requiring a plebiscite in the U.S. You have offered nothing, zero, zilch, zip, nada, in evidence against that claim. You reject the claim itself as ‘something coming from the organization’, i.e. propaganda from an interested party, and as such of no evidentiary value – without any proof that this is indeed the source.

If there is ‘plenty of evidence’ against TheScorpion's claim, let's hear some of it.

Have you been paying attention?

My point is that assertions coming from this ownership group tend not be based in fact and they don't operate in good faith. Certainly you don't need to be shown evidence of that but here you go:

https://www.azcentral.com/story/opin...ll/6448958001/

https://theathletic.com/4223681/2021...investigation/

https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.co...plan-cost.aspx

https://theathletic.com/2162185/2020...-bullying-nhl/

https://theathletic.com/3317668/2022...-alex-meruelo/

As for what Scorp is saying, I'm simply asking from where he is receiving this information. I need evidence to ask this?

He claimed the Tempe deal was set in concrete except for the voters. I pointed out the lawsuit. Here is my evidence:

https://www.skyharbor.com/about-phx/...against-tempe/


Scorp believes the lawsuit would not have impacted anything. I asked for evidence of this especially since a similar lawsuit blocked a Tempe stadium deal 20 years previously.

Scorp states no big deal, nearly all public infrastructure projects go to litigation. Quite a claim, does saying it put the burden of on someone else to disprove? Again I reference the failed deal from 20 years ago.

This could still work out, they do have money after all. But IMO asking questions is rightfully deserved at this point. If you want to participate in the discussion, with either facts or opinions, that would be great though. My opinion is that anyone who carries water for these guys does so at the risk of their own credibility.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

The Elks, LOL.
The Ducks instead of Mighty Ducks (to shed an image).
Hornets to Pelicans
Oilers to Titans
Bobcats to Hornets

And cities have lost teams only to get a franchise again later like Minnesota and Denver in the NHL. Of course sometimes it doesn't stick the second time like St. Louis (NFL) and Atlanta (NHL)

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Jordan!

Explain to me then why the Diamondbacks are also wanting to move to Scottsdale? If the team can create another Scottsdale Quarter type of district surrounded by an arena in a location that these "rich" folks will find accessible it will be the single best location business wise they can select. Essentially anywhere between the 51 to Scottsdale road is GOLD and that is where the location likely will be judging by what Craig Morgan has wrote and a few twitter/reddit sleuths.

The demographics are 100% different than Westgate in a cornfield. This is pre-established demographically and within a stones throw from Scottsdale and easy to access from Paradise Valley.

Anywhere between 51 and Scottsdale Rd is gold, and people want it to stay that way. The Dbacks are posturing right now to get free renovations to Chase Field. That’s what’s going on there. Maricopa County has the club by the balls and everyone knows it. Maricopa County called their bluff and gave them a green light to relocate to a new stadium but only if it is in Maricopa County. with a bill of about $1.5 to $2 billion dollars for a new facility there are no municipal suitors lining up to eat the cost. No one, especially Scottsdale, is going to take on the white elephant that is another stadium. Taxpayers don’t want it. This is a NIMBY issue for citizens and a dollars and cents issue for municipalities. Teams can want to move, they still have to deal with the realities of zoning and politics.

[TheScorpion]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1732060822313070747

[Paulie Walnuts]

Finalizing to buy a piece of land great.

How about funding? Will they pay for the entire arena? How long is this process now going to take?

How many more years will they play in the most embarrassing arena in the pro sports.

Just relocate this Mickey Mouse operation and get it into a city that can have more than 10 people at a game.

[TheScorpion]

Believe the estimated timeframe is two more years at Mullett, with groundbreaking at the Phoenix site exepcted to take place in June-July if they can get all their ducks in a row.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Believe the estimated timeframe is two more years at Mullett, with groundbreaking at the Phoenix site exepcted to take place in June-July if they can get all their ducks in a row.

Getting the ducks in the row is the hardest part. Hopefully they can start getting shovels in the dirt as soon as possible because they've received a LOT of rope for this to happen.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by Jordan!

Not even close.. you should've stopped here

Pick the richest area of Calgary and put an arena/development on its doorstep. Glendale is blue collar, lower income and a completely different demographic. The only issue is that it's quite far for the "Middle class" hockey fans that largely reside in Chandler or Gilbert but still way better than Glendale.

I wasn't talking about class. I was referring to location in terms of distances. The place that Lanny was suggesting looked far away from anything. In my mind a central location like downtown is more preferred than an area that's getting close to edges of the city.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Finalizing to buy a piece of land great.

How about funding? Will they pay for the entire arena? How long is this process now going to take?

How many more years will they play in the most embarrassing arena in the pro sports.

Just relocate this Mickey Mouse operation and get it into a city that can have more than 10 people at a game.

I hate the Coyotes as much as anyone, but one of the best things for them was probably to move into a facility that was more suited to the number of fans they have.

Look, everyone knows why the Arizona Coyotes are allowed to exist.

They are a front propped up by the league to launder cap space for big market teams. Their presence gives them access to the Arizona TV market, however little they matter, and it's always good to have another warm city with soft tax policies to frequent in the dead of winter.

They could be playing in the Phoenix equivalent of Max Bell and they'd be allowed to continue. And the players wouldn't care - fewer people in the stands means even fewer people know you once you drive off into the warm Arizona night.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

Getting the ducks in the row is the hardest part. Hopefully they can start getting shovels in the dirt as soon as possible because they've received a LOT of rope for this to happen.

I don't see how that would be possible TBH. Would have to be at least three more seasons at Mullet. No way they are breaking ground in June/July. They haven't even bought the land yet and all the architecture, etc would take a lot of time.

It's kind of funny though because I do think the Goalposts keep moving.

The arena needs to be downtown in Tempe in Mesa in Scottsdale .... adjacent to Scottsdale will be fine!

I hope it works for them but really I don't see how a location adjacent to Scottsdale (let's assume it's north of Scottsdale) is really a better location than anything else.

[Infinit47]

Lots of opinion being stated as facts in here. The only facts we have are that Phoenix has not yet proven to be a sustainable hockey market. This could change with a better arena location, but I have my doubts.

With sports I don't believe supply creates demand, and there just doesn't seem to be enough demand in the greater Phoenix area.

All these complaints about location are overblown. I'm not saying it won't be better in a new location, I just don't think it will be a game changer. People in big US cities are used to driving everywhere. It's just what they do, and not enough people were willing to drive to Glendale.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I don't see how that would be possible TBH. Would have to be at least three more seasons at Mullet. No way they are breaking ground in June/July. They haven't even bought the land yet and all the architecture, etc would take a lot of time.

It's kind of funny though because I do think the Goalposts keep moving.

The arena needs to be downtown in Tempe in Mesa in Scottsdale .... adjacent to Scottsdale will be fine!

I hope it works for them but really I don't see how a location adjacent to Scottsdale (let's assume it's north of Scottsdale) is really a better location than anything else.

The best location is always the next location for this club.

And breaking ground in the near future assumes the funding model has been agreed to by all parties.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

The best location is always the next location for this club.

That's the funniest part about all of this to me. Every time they have a new plan, we get to hear about why it's the best plan, and the other plans were not good.

Honestly, I would love for it to work out in Arizona and am hoping that it eventually does. I think it would be good for the NHL to have a healthy market there. If they never had a team, I am sure most people would be looking at that market as a place that should be a prime spot to put a team. I agree with others that the Coyotes brand has been damaged pretty bad at this point that the best course of action could be to relocate them, then when they get their arena under construction, award them an expansion franchise with a clean slate.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Have you been paying attention?

My point is that assertions coming from this ownership group tend not be based in fact and they don't operate in good faith.

Great. Now please show where TheScorpion's claim is an assertion coming from the ownership group.

As for what Scorp is saying, I'm simply asking from where he is receiving this information. I need evidence to ask this?

But you were not simply asking. You were outright saying that you believed it to be propaganda from the Coyotes' owners. That's what you need evidence for, and so far you have supplied none. But you did double down on that claim just now by stressing that it was, in fact, your point.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Great. Now please show where TheScorpion's claim is an assertion coming from the ownership group.



But you were not simply asking. You were outright saying that you believed it to be propaganda from the Coyotes' owners. That's what you need evidence for, and so far you have supplied none. But you did double down on that claim just now by stressing that it was, in fact, your point.

If you care that much you should ask Scorp where the information came from. If you want to talk about the Coyotes great, but I don’t think you do so shame on me for responding to you.